Avoiding Flinching

All good advice here, especially starting with lower power loads or 22lr, recognizing that and small frame revolvers with full house 125 gn 357 mag is a serious handful for anyone and not really a beginner load.
One thing I might add is examining your grip. Look at the height of your grip (I.e how high is the web of your hand on the gun). Also examine your grip strength. A very firm grip with both hands can seriously help to reduce flinching. Get to the point that when you pick up a gun for whatever reason you naturally grip it very firmly. This has helped me.
That and shoot thousands of rounds of 22lr from a comparable gun.
 
They make several different good rests for pistols. Shooting on one of these will tell you how bad your flinch is much more than just standing and shooting. I wouldn't recommend this at a busy range but if you have learned your trigger well enough you can close your eyes after you are on target. I don't know why this helps me with both rifle and pistol but I sure seem to be able to feel my flaws more. Another thing may be better hearing protection. I don't know if this is true but alot of people say flinching can be from the boom as much or more than recoil.
 
Lock your wrist or wrists down at a 45 degree angle, which will make it harder for you to dip the gun. Everybody dips sometimes...it just a matter of frequency and the amount of dip angle.

You'll have to realize that the gun is not going to hurt you. Ask a person to look to see whether you blink your eyes at the moment the shot breaks --- If you do --- you still have a mild flinch.

If you still flinch...go back to a 22, so you can work out your flinch; or get a heavier pistol that will mitigate recoil somewhat.

The modern Isosceles position helps you control the gun. You have to "treat your trigger finger as it's own entity."

Warm-up trigger time, usually takes about 15 minutes for a shooter to get in the groove --- So maybe warm-up with a 22 --- That's what I usually do...when I get some trigger time at the range.

Follow through with your trigger finger --- Bury it at the rear of the trigger guard.
 
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Has anyone found shooting speed to be relevant? I seem to have trouble with the flinch if I'm trying slow, controlled precision but am nearly always more accurate shooting quicker and to multiple targets. Make any sense?

Merry Christmas all!
 
Yup, shooting a couple of rounds at a static target is ok to check function and point of aim is point of impact, other than that, go fast.


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The easiest method is the ball and dummy drill. Dont get another gun. Im sure there are tons of videos out there regarding the Ball and dummy drill. THATS the best way, dont change your caliber, dont change your gun shoot and train with what you carry.
 
Rleadslinger said:
The easiest method is the ball and dummy drill. Dont get another gun. Im sure there are tons of videos out there regarding the Ball and dummy drill. THATS the best way, dont change your caliber, dont change your gun shoot and train with what you carry.
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I started out with the same philosophy. But I've recently gotten a S&W686 that I use as my "practice gun", for several reasons. First, I can load 5 dummies and 1 live round, and after EVERY trigger pull, I close my eyes, open the cylinder and rotate it enough times to make its cartridge positions random, close the cylinder, cock the hammer, and pull the trigger. So I get (on average) 5 clicks for every bang. NOTHING shows a flinch like a click when you're expecting a bang. Also, in order for me to be willing to go to the range more often, I've designated the 686 as my "non-pristine" gun, that gets only a very cursory cleaning (no Hoppe's #9 or other solvent) after most range trips ... I HATE doing the detailed cleaning that I want my carry gun(s) to have after every range trip. I also have kept the SA trigger pull stock on the 686 (4-5 lbs), which challenges my trigger finger more, and is good practice. And the .38 specials I shoot in it are relatively cheap compared to full-spec 10mm, which is all I shoot in my 10mm 1911 carry gun. (The 5 dummies_per live_round scheme also just requires many fewer rounds for a given amount of practice). The .38's are also very mild and nice to shoot in that heavy (40oz) 686. Finally, I just LIKE the simplicity of a revolver ... no picking up brass (and never being hit by it, or hitting other people with it, ...).
 
DMK said:
This might help:

How to Stop Flinching or Anticipating When You Shoot a Pistol
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No, that's not the problem at all, at least in my case (and I suspect, in ALL cases). I've always done a LOT of dry-firing, and have gotten where I can hold the sights perfectly still, on target, before, during , and after the hammer drops. I can also achieve a perfectly linear increase in finger force on the trigger, over a total interval of time according to my choosing in advance (from several seconds total to only a quarter-second or so), so that I CAN'T predict exactly WHEN in that interval the hammer is going to fall (and thus, NO flinch is POSSIBLE). But when I get to the range, it is NEVER like dry-firing, no matter how potent or mild the recoil is. IF your brain knows that a bang is about to happen (no matter how mild), it behaves differently than when it knows that only a click is about to happen ... THAT'S the amazing thing!

My current strategy is to load 5 dummies and only 1 live round, open and randomly rotate the cylinder (with my eyes closed) after EVERY trigger pull (with the just-fired round (if any) replaced with a live round). That way, on average I'll get 5 clicks for each bang. I always know that it MAY WELL go bang on every trigger squeeze, and the flinch will thus be there. And when you're expecting a bang, and get a click, the flinch (if you've got one) will be VERY obvious. My hope is that by being repeatedly embarrassed by that ridiculous flinching motion, it'll eventually go away out of pure shame.

To be practical, this procedure requires having a revolver (that can be shot SA) ... unless you've got a friend standing next to you repeatedly chambering either a dummy or a live round in your semi-auto (during which your eyes are closed), handing you the gun, and being ready to repeat the process each time you pull the trigger ... you'll probably run out of friends pretty soon. I use my heavy 686 (40 oz) shooting .38 special American Eagles (very mild and relatively cheap), with the relatively heavy 4-5lb stock trigger. The relatively heavy trigger makes it easier to sense and confirm that I'm getting a nice linear increase in force on the trigger during my chosen "shooting window of time", compared to the very light triggers I want on my carry guns.
 
No, that's not the problem at all, at least in my case (and I suspect, in ALL cases). I've always done a LOT of dry-firing, ...But when I get to the range, it is NEVER like dry-firing, no matter how potent or mild the recoil is.
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I hear you. I get the same thing.

If you already do a lot of dry firing (and I mean a lot, like every day or at least a couple sessions a week), try doubling up on your hearing protection at the range. Use foam plugs and over the ear muffs at the same time. Gloves help too. Try everything you can to protect your body from perceiving the bang and recoil as a threat.

Shooting a 22 handgun at the end of a session helps me as well. Some say do it as both warm-up and cool-down bookends to your range sessions.


One more thing, make sure that when you are doing your dry firing, you treat it as a real range session, just without ammo. Use the targets you'd use at the range. Really concentrate on your draw, stance, trigger and front site. Remove all distractions. Don't just do it while you're watching TV or doing something else to split your attention.

Remember, with dry firing you are trying to ingrain "muscle memory". Perfect practice leads to perfect performance.
 
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My current strategy is to load 5 dummies and only 1 live round, open and randomly rotate the cylinder ...To be practical, this procedure requires having a revolver (
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I've never found this to be a tool to solve flinch for me, only as a diagnostics tool to show you have flinch. But it it works for you, great. It's also a good malfunction drill.

It's easy to do with an auto as well. You just pour out enough rounds for a mag into a tray or bowl. Subtract one live round for a dummy round. Now just grab the rounds out of the bowl and load the mag without looking and without counting (you already counted when you put them in the tray). Load one mag with a dummy, and two or three identical mags without. (Or you could just put enough ammo in for three mags and load all three without looking, so the dummy is in there somewhere).

Now, mix the mags up, put them in a bag, put them in a jacket pocket, whatever you need to do so you loose track of the one with the dummy.

(or you could invert this and load all dummies with just one or two live rounds.)
 
"It's easy to do with an auto as well."

It's easy to load one dummy and the rest live, but I want to do the reverse: 1 live and the rest dummies ... I want 5 times more clicks than bangs, because the clicks are when I learn about (and get shamed by) a flinch ... it's that constant embarrassment and shaming that I'm hoping will banish the flinch ... we'll see.
 
I suggest a combination of what has been proposed already. Dry firing at the range, concentrate as if it was a live round. Do so until you feel the shot would come off like you want. Then load 1 round and fire it. Back to dry firing, then load 1 round and fire. Slowly increase the live round count until the flinch returns. Then back to dry firing.
 
I started out with the same philosophy. But I've recently gotten a S&W686 that I use as my "practice gun", for several reasons. First, I can load 5 dummies and 1 live round, and after EVERY trigger pull, I close my eyes, open the cylinder and rotate it enough times to make its cartridge positions random, close the cylinder, cock the hammer, and pull the trigger. So I get (on average) 5 clicks for every bang. NOTHING shows a flinch like a click when you're expecting a bang
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This is more or less the ball and dummy drill by the way. I wouldnt recommend closing my eyes ever, but hey thats just me. Why not get a buddy to just load in a random number of live to dummy rounds? No need to close your eyes at all.
 
Has anyone found shooting speed to be relevant? I seem to have trouble with the flinch if I'm trying slow, controlled precision but am nearly always more accurate shooting quicker and to multiple targets. Make any sense?
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Likely you are thinking into the next shot before you finish the first one. Or you are over thinking the shot you are doing, target panic.
 
I have been shooting for at least a couple of weeks now, and I can't fire a light J frame .357 without picking up a flinch. If it is not practical to buy a .22 handgun to start with, do as others have said and start with the lightest loads you can find.

Also, your accuracy will improve if you concentrate on the sights while squeezing the trigger.

Jim
 
A j-frame 357 (and maybe shooting it DA) is a tough one to get good groups w/ flinch or not but it will certainly be a gun most people would flinch with - not much absorbing the bang. With any gun, I find if I start slow, concetrate on my sights and what my tigger finger is doing and just let the gun shoot itself I don't flinch. After a while I can shoot faster and not even notice the gun going off. But if I'm trying to anticipate the shot itself and think I'm "shooting" the gun I end up flinching or jerking my hand and the shot groups not pretty.
 
When those Scandium frame .357's first came out, a poster reported that the gun shops in his area were full of used ones, most of which had a box of ammo with 47 rounds. One shot to see what it felt like. One shot to see if it really was that bad. One shot to find out that it really was that bad. Trade the gun.

Jim
 
When the first scandium/titanium ultralight (11oz) .357's came out (mine was the chief-special-type 360sc), I bought one, and carried it as my sole carry gun (front pocket) for about 10 years. I was younger then, and could tolerate (just barely) shooting my 5 carry rounds at each range session, and the rest of the practice was with .38 non-plus-P (that felt like .22's by comparison). Over those years, I would occasionally get a cut from the hammer spur hitting the web between my thumb and trigger finger ... not too bad, just a nuisance. But once, in trying to be proactive, I put a little one-inch square of moleskin on that area, and that turned out to be a BIG mistake: when the hammer hit that moleskin, the moleskin ripped off all the skin underneath ... took a long time to heal, and I still have a big scar there.

I still carry that gun as my BUG, though ... nothing carries that easily, and the power-to-weight ratio is unequaled. I rarely shoot it anymore, but the few times I have, I can't tolerate shooting the whole 5 carry rounds any more ... two is about my limit (and that's with a shooting glove now). And the rounds that I carry in it (Federal 158gr "Hi-Shoks") are no longer considered full-spec (although they were back when I chose them as my carry rounds).
 
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