Average Civilian Gunfight Range

"Based on what I have seen, the single most important skill to develop as a civilian is the ability to hit the target quickly"

I personally think avoidance, followed by the nike defense are #'s 1 and 2

Feel free to chime in with how I am a hopeless coward afraid to get shot to heck to bolster my manhood:rolleyes:

Seriously...situational awareness is key

When that fails, you need the skills to "make some space" and often times you will not have the luxury of drawing your weapon. Those that advocate chamber empty may find it difficult to chamber a round while delivering a palm strike with their weak hand.

Stats are fun...but be careful or you will notice most altercations are over when a weapon is produced which could lead you to surmise that a rubber gun will work just fine

The real world is neither the square range...nor the OK corral

You need to be able to deploy your weapon in all sorts of unorthodox positions

And you need to have a plan for those situations where you do not have time to "go fer yer gun"
 
"the nike defense are #'s 1 and 2"

1)At 3 to 7 yards you seldom have time to run away.

2)You need to be able to deploy your weapon in all sorts of unorthodox positions

Yes, that's good advice
 
I'll chime in, usually I stay out of these things but...

Most civilian shootings also involve people who know each other. Two friends, a relative, a brother in law, etc. This is why...

70% happen in the home
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Home invasions, break-ins while folks are in the house, etc. are fairly rare. Most of the time it's your Uncle Festus who gets drunk at the family get together and starts an argument, when you go to throw him out he refuses and wants to fight. The guy what used to go out with your sister and shows up to have it out with her and her new beau, etc. Most can be avoided without gunplay.

The following are four incidents that happened within a mile of my house over the last 8 months. 3 within 2 blocks.

A man borrowed $300. dollars from a co-worker so that he could buy a gun to defend himself from his brother in law. The man than did not repay the co-worker on the appointed date. A few weeks went by and the co-worker complained and groused that he needed the money please pay me back at least some he said. The fella said I'll meet you at your place. At 8 pm on a Friday night he showed up and met the co-worker on the stairs of his apartment. He walked up to his friend who he owed money to, called his name pulled the gun he had bought with borrowed money from his pocket and shot him 3 times in the chest at handshake distance. The man died and the shooter fled the state. Not found yet though folks know his name, where he worked and lived.

At a local bar/restaurant two men on the crowed patio pulled their guns and got to shooting at each other, a dispute over a woman. The fight started at handshake distance and went running till one escaped the patio, about 10 yards. One shooter was hit once and drove himself to a hospitol. The other was hit in the leg. Two bystanders were killed including an 18 year old there with his family celebrating his birthday. Both shooters are faceing trial.

A group of youth from outside my neighborhood were visiting a friend and got into an argument were one of the local guys mother's car was damaged. The young man, 15 yrs. old, who lives a block and a half from me, than called some of his friends from across the bay to come over with their gun. They did. He met them. He did a drive by at 11am on a Sat. morning on the street where he lives shooting one of the visiting youth in the hand and thigh distance about 15 yards. The cops arrested him at his kitchen table about an hour later where his mother was berating him and he was crying. He's in Juve.

A fella in his 30s walked into the corner store which is run by my neighbors. He waited till the 16 year old son was alone minding the store. He was carrying a paper bag. He walked up to the counter pulled the gun told the kid to hand over the money. My friend said no. He hit him over the head with a revolver. He hit him a couple of times my friend opened the register and the thief took 60.00 bucks. He hit my friend again and knocked him down. Standing over him he pointed the gun at him and pulled the trigger. Misfire. "God don't want you dead today" he told my friend and left running. I nicknamed him "HardHead".

Only one of these was actually a gunfight. But for the most part no seperate statistics are kept on gunfights. They are listed as shootings and statistics are sometimes kept on them, sometimes not. Reports are not always accurate.

Often when folks anticipate gunplay and come up with scenarios in their minds, preplanning so to speak, it is actually for the least likely scenarios. A woman being shot by a boyfriend, husband or an ex is way more likely than an attack by a total stranger, for example.

tipoc
 
in regards to SD shootings.

im just curious if the ranges are typically closer with LEO because they're are pro-active....its basically their job to "get involved".

unlike a civilian than may be forced to defend themselves,who would typically be trying to remove themselves from the situation.
 
"...when outdoors, civilians tended to begin firing from distances no greater than 30-40 yards!"

30-40 yards! Even drive-bys are closer than that. I find it hard to visualize a case of self defense at 40 yards, simply because at that distance it would be hard in most cases to determine that a threat exists. Unless the shooter knows his opponent, and knows there is immediate danger, I can't see how he could justifiably fire. Maybe it is just my old eyes, but I can't tell the difference between a pistol and a cell phone at 40 yards, and I don't think the cops would like me to blow away folks who are chatting on their phones (although I admit I have sometimes considered it).

I suppose someone can offer another view, but gunfight ranges, in my limited experience, seldom exceed 10 yards, and 3-4 feet would be right for 80% of them. There are exceptions - the Texas Tower killer, for example. But those are not the norm and I don't know of any police department that trains its patrol officers at those ranges. Snipers certainly work at those ranges, but I am not sure that is a gunfight and I don't know of a "civilian" gunfight at over a hundred yards.

Incidentally, I knew one of the two men who got into a gunfight (over a woman) and shot each other. The one I knew had a .45 auto, the other had a .44 Magnum. The man shot with the .45 died instantly from one shot; the man I knew was hit once with a .44 slug and died two days later. I don't know any other details, but the range was about five feet, across a bar-room table. One report said the woman ordered another beer.

Jim
 
IMO practice both as close and far as you range will allow. A "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" mindset will go a long way. Clint Smith put it best when he said, "Your gunfight will not be what you expect it to be."

Denny
 
Most civilian shootings also involve people who know each other. Two friends, a relative, a brother in law, etc. This is why...
Click to expand...

Actually, some research on how this information is collected revealed that police reports have a simple "yes/no/unknown" response to this question. Checking "yes" means that the investigating officer has some basis to say the two persons knew each other - either some fact or a statement from a witness that the two seemed to know each other. "Assailant known to victim" includes;
- Drug user & dealer
- Pimp and Prostitute
- Co-workers
- Neighbors
- Gang members (same or different gangs)
- Criminal associates (partners in crime)
- Previously seen customers of a business.

#1 skill - Being able to identify real potential threats and knowing when someone is on the verge of violence.
#2 skill - avoiding potential confrontations to start with.
#3 skill - Being aware enough to have an escape planned, and using it.
#4 skill - Conflict resolution - being able to dissapate anger or aggression towards you.
#5 skill - knowing when you can deploy the non-lethal countermeasures
#6 skill - being able to shoot first, fast and final (on target).

I try to follow both the KISS principle and the Rule of the 6-P's. KISS means Keep It Simple, Stupid. The Rule of the 6-P's is simply Proper Planning Prevents P--- Poor Performance. Plan properly with simple tactics and efforts.

Most of my training is between 7 and 15 yards (21 to 45 feet). When I can, I do some shooting at under 10 feet to simulate the robbery/assault threat using point-shooting techniques. I practice some point shooting out to 7 yards because my truck is 16.5 feet long that gives me confidence in one-handed shooting from one end to the other (plus a skosh).
 
Hits don't count if the criminal is still up and holding his gun.

I think most shootings occur at close range. Should that happen I have nowhere to go but to hope that the criminal will miss me with his bullets. Sidestepping will be my best bet, but to do that while shooting sounds very difficult. There will be no time to reload, unless I can find shelter. If I can't get a hit with six bullets then I'm not getting one with twelve; that's my philosophy behind choosing a powerful revolver. Realistically, the best I can do is to draw the handgun early, squeese off one round in the general direction as soon as possible and then aquire sight and then continue to unload on target. My ccw choice is a four inch .357 magnum, loaded hot. I don't want a wounded criminal who continues to fire back at me. I've read that the .357 magnum bullet at 1450 ft/s stuns the hit person like he was struck by lightning and his activities stop right there. To shave off a second I'm also playing with the idea of not snapping shut the locking strap of the holster, but that allows for a steal of my handgun from behind, so I will continue to strap the handgun down. To not put myself at close range to shady-looking people are my best overall tactics. I imagine it will feel very weired to be the first one to draw in case someone acts strange. If not sooner, the scumbag will at that point go for his gun in self defense. Everything would be so much easier if there were no scumbags.
 
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