Auto Pistol Decision....Input needed. HELP!!!!

M

Mntneer357

New member
Ladies and Gents:

I came into some "found money" over the holidays and as some of you may know, I want to add an autoloader to my inventory. I went out looking several times, including today, and I've seen many wonderful guns. I don't want to spend mega-bucks on a new pistol, but I want something rock solid that will perform and last. The duties this handgun will serve are:

1. Self defense: there seems to be a growing contingent of "disadvantaged minority youths" in certain tell-tale colored clothing coming into the area surrounding my neighborhood. I'm never one to be unprepared and in the future this could be trouble. Can we say clear and present danger? I can.
2. Range work: Hey, I love to go practice and shoot up targets as much as anyone. I want something with decent accuracy, absolute reliability, that is easy to care for and strip.
3. Woods work: I have friends who have TONS of land where I often go hiking or just find myself out alone in the wild. Sometimes the mountains, sometimes at a deserted beach cove. *IF* I ever encountered a wounded animal, I would hope to end its suffering in one clean shot. *OR* if something nasty decided that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'd like to change it's intent and get out with my hide intact.

NOW, with that said, I've pretty much ruled out a 9mm. I love the round, but it is too light to put down an animal in one shot. Also, I'd rather not have to drop $75-100 for one standard cap mag. I am currently looking at either a .45 ACP or maybe a .357 SIG. Here are the possibles:

1. Ruger P97: this thing seems to me a bit like an AK47. It is tough as hell, reasonably accurate and very reliable. What do you all think?
2. Glock 31: nice gun...great HOT round, but can it take deer sized game? Could it do this in one shot? Is this round going to be around forever like the .45 and 9mm? Is ammo ever going to be widespread and inexpensive?
3. Springfield Armory.45: wow that gun felt great in my hand, but it is pretty well at the extreme high end of my budget *and* 1911s can be a mother to strip without tools.

Help please!! Any answers you can provide would help. I'm looking to buy very soon but I want to make an informed decision. I need advice

Cheers!
Mntneer357
4.
 
.357 Sig is a 9mm bullet traveling only about 100 fps faster than a hot 9mm Para. It is "hotter", but not really "hot". It compares well to a .357 Magnum defense load, not a .357 Magnum hunting load. Don't let the name fool you.

.45 is no miracle worker either, but my be better for the all-around bullet you're looking for. For the buck, the Ruger P90 or P97 offer alot of gun.

If you want power, cosider a Glock 20 or 29 in 10mm or a full size HK USP 45 loaded with +P .45. Both guns are designed to sling heavy duty loads without modification or worry. There are other heavy duty autos, but these two have shown themselves to be up to the job in a way that no one would really argue with.
 
I want to add an autoloader to my inventory
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Does your present inventory include a .44 Mag revolver? If so, use that for wilderness and get a 9mm for city carry.

You want a "one size fits all." I don't think that's a good guide when buying tools (any tools).
 
1. Ruger P97: this thing seems to me a bit like an AK47. It is tough as hell, reasonably accurate and very reliable. What do you all think?
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If its going to be your first and only semi-auto, I won't recommend this model. My P97 is giving me problems, and even when it works right--99% of the time--its still lacking in many areas (notably refinement/fit/finish)


2. Glock 31: nice gun...great HOT round, but can it take deer sized game? Could it do this in one shot? Is this round going to be around forever like the .45 and 9mm? Is ammo ever going to be widespread and inexpensive?
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Good choice. How about a Glock 21 or Glock 30 instead though? The .45 ACP Glocks are really nice, and I've got nothing but good results with my G21.
 
I wouldn't call the .45 ACP a good choice for 4-legged critters. It's among the best for the 2-legged variety, but I don't like it for beasties. The big-bore revolvers are the right medicine for those.

If you liked the Glock 31, I'd recommend you try the G21. Accuracy is better than acceptable, it's probably the easiest pistol in the world to take down for cleaning, and .45 ACP is easy to find and less expensive than the .357 Sig. If the Springfield is at the upper end of what you want to spend, then the G21 should fit in as well.
 
Glock 20

When I have the money to buy a semi-auto handgun that meets your requirements it will be a Glock 20.

1. Self-Defense FBI considered 10mm, but recoil was strong however looking at the ballistics of the 10mm the rounds appears to be a good self-defense round. Also with the Glock 20 I have been informed that with a barrel-swap you can shoot either .40 or .357Sig.

2. Range Work Glocks are considered by most to be combat accurate right out of the box and have a somewhat consistent trigger pull. Most Glocks are very reliable from the reports I have heard. Glocks are very simple to break down, push a button and the slide comes off leaving you with slide, barrel, and recoil spring assembly. A good friend shoots a Glock 31 .357Sig, and after his last range session he came back singing the praises of his Glock's accuracey.

3. Woods Work. The 10mm is legal in many states for Deer Sized game. My particular state the 10mm falls just short of the 500ft-lbs at 100yards minimium :(, however I would not feel undergunned with an encounter with any savage beast smaller than a bear. The 10mm can reach 479ft-lbs at 100yards that is a 200grn bullet at 1200fps however that is the maximium reload that my books show but its very close to 500ft-lbs at 100yards.

I have seen the Glock 20 with fixed sights selling new as low as $519.00 here in GA, and IMO that is not a bad price.

The only downfall of the Glock20 for some people is the larger grip frame than say a Glock 19 or Glock 31. So handle one before you buy to make sure it fits you.

I love the 1911's myself, but when it comes to price and durability(I ain't skeered to drop the glock in mud) the Glock fits my needs, maybe it will fit your requirements also.

Good Luck and Happy Gun Hunting!
 
Originally posted by Mntneer357:

1. Self defense: there seems to be a growing contingent of "disadvantaged minority youths" in certain tell-tale colored clothing coming into the area surrounding my neighborhood. I'm never one to be unprepared and in the future this could be trouble. Can we say clear and present danger? I can.
2. Range work: Hey, I love to go practice and shoot up targets as much as anyone. I want something with decent accuracy, absolute reliability, that is easy to care for and strip.
3. Woods work: I have friends who have TONS of land where I often go hiking or just find myself out alone in the wild. Sometimes the mountains, sometimes at a deserted beach cove. *IF* I ever encountered a wounded animal, I would hope to end its suffering in one clean shot. *OR* if something nasty decided that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'd like to change it's intent and get out with my hide intact.
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I don't know of any semi-automatic pistol that will meet all of your requirements.

If I had to choose one handgun that could do all of these things, it would be the S&W Mountain Gun in .44 Magnum.

You could carry it with .44 Specials for self-defense and target practice, and .44 Magnums in the woods.

The 4 inch, tapered barrel allows this gun to be carried more easily than most .44 Magnums.
 
357 Sig is a 9mm bullet traveling only about 100 fps faster than a hot 9mm Para

FIrst off this is wrong information. The 357 sig is a minimum of 150 to 200 fps faster when ever I have chroned the ammo in simular guns. Thats a 30 to 50 % gain in energy. The 357 sig is an accurate hard hitting round that I would buy. I trust my 31 over any other pistol I could carry including my issue 21. As for hunting its not as powerfull as the full house 357 mag hunting loads. But it will do ok. With my 6 inch KKM barrel in a Glock 24 it pushes 125 grain golddots at 1600 fps. The sole purpose of the 357 sig was to duplicate 357 mag defensive ammo and this it does well. The P90 and P97 are nice guns but I would take a Glock 21 over them if you want a 45.
PAT
 
fantastic plastic from beretta

The "new" Beretta 9000S is small enough for concealed carry but with a hinged magazine floorplate can accomodate a large hand. Comes with two 10 round mags and is available in either 9mm or .40cal.

A page focusing on this model can be found at
http://thearmedcitizen.com/beretta.com

Best of luck in your quest.
 
O.k.....perhaps I should clarify a bit. I apologize for any confusion I may have created.

First off, thank you all for your honesty and for sharing your insight with me. Also, thank you for taking time out of your day to post a reply to my questiuon.

10mm is out. Too much recoil, too expensive, and too hard to find in remote, rural areas.

9mm is out too. I think *very* highly of the round. It's great for self-defense/anti-personnel applications. BUT I despise the idea of buying a gun and then having to shell out $75-$125 for standard cap magazines. Also it is way light for animals. And with 13-19 rounds under my finger, I admit that I am tempted to "fill the air with lead" as opposed to relying on marksmanship to get the job done.

I tend to favor weapons and other equipment that can do a multitude of tasks well, if need be. You just never know what you are going to run into or what kind of things you will need. It's kind of like not knowing you are supposed to play golf with your dad that day and you only have 2 clubs in your truck. You can't put it off, you can't go home, and you can't borrow dad's clubs anymore. You MUST improvise. IF those two clubs are a driver and a putter, you are pretty well screwed. IF those clubs are maybe a 3 wood and a 9-iron, it's still going to be a tough day but you would not be totally ruined. Hence I am wondering if a .45 ACP or .357 SIG could handle most duties.

SIG P220 .45ACP ($810)?? Springfield Armory .45ACP ($799)
Ruger KP-97 .45 ACP ($380) Glock 31 .357 SIG ($615)

I'm kinda looking for a handgun that is like an AK47. What I mean by that is: stone cold reliable, reasonably accurate, *easy* to care for and maintain. ALSO the AK *could* be used for hunting.....it *could* be used for range work.....and it could be used to save your hide. Which of the above pistols could also handle that? Am I asking stupid questions? I apologize in advance if I am. Please help me! Thank you all once again for your time.

Cheers!
Mntneer357
 
SIG P220 .45ACP ($810)??
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Umm, shop around. That looks way high. I was just looking at one today and the non-stainless one was mid $600s if I recall (and that's probably still higher than you can get if you scrounge around enough).
 
Federal Hydra Shock 124 grain .357 Sig: 1350 fps

Speer Gold Dot 125 grain .357 Sig: 1350 fps

Corbon 124 grain +P 9mm: 1250 fps

Proload 124 grain +P 9mm: 1200 fps

With premium ammo, the difference can be as little as 100 fps.
 
Since 9mm is "out," maybe you should rethink ...


... the 10mm G-20. Why? 'Cause it's a 3-in-1 gun.


Unless UPS doesn't deliver in your state, Georgia Arms can supply all the plinking/practice 10mm you need for a reasonable price. $180 for a 1000 rds.

Don't feel like being limited to shooting only 10mm? No problem. With a simple barrel swap and nothing more, you can shoot .40 S&W or .357 Sig out of the G-20. How's that for versatility? 1 gun, 3 calibers.

Federal Arms & KKM both offer "drop-in" barrels in these other calibers for the G-20 or, for that matter, the more compact G-29.

By the way, felt recoil in the G-20 is a nonissue, even with hot loads.

Check it out. Then ask yourself, what other shooting platform readily offers a 3-in-1 set-up?
 
SIG P220 .45ACP ($810)?? Springfield Armory .45ACP ($799)
Ruger KP-97 .45 ACP ($380) Glock 31 .357 SIG ($615)


Ok those figures are way too high. The glock is 500 w/o nightsights and 550 with. The Sig 220 is 650 and 700 with night sights. The springfield I don't know. The ruger is about right.

Handy there is no 124 grain hydra shock or any hydra shock for that matter in the 357 sig. Also never trust posted figures. Here is some actual chrono data. +p+ LEO only 9mm 124 grain hydra shocks at 1180 in my Beretta 92 F. My Glock 31 launches the 125 grain federal load at 1440 in 357 sig. The problem with those figures is they are based on a 4 inch test barrel not a 4.5 to 5 inch service auto. Speer Gold dots run at 1400 in my Glock 31 while standard pressure 9mm golddots were 1025 in my Beretta. I had not +p available for testing. Corbons 125 grain 9mm goes 1250 while the same bullet in 357 sig goes 1450 in my glock. On average the speed advantage is between 150 to 250.
PAT
 
Well, if you don't want a 10MM or a 9MM, I'd go with a .45, but I'd stick with a 1911 version. Someone was posting about Charles Daly's being ok, and at pretty good prices, but I have no personal knowledge of them. Youy could pick up a pretty good used Gold Cup for around (or less) than the price of a SIG, if you are patient. Maybe not, I'm working from memory. But there are a heck of a lot of good .45's on the market at reasonable prices.

They are not what I would call a 'hunting' capable weapon (for food), though. But the 1911 will do all the other things you want.
 
I re-read your original post. Maybe the P220 or the P245, if thats not out of your range, but I'm thinking 650 or so, like 355sigfan. I paid 650 or so for my P245, NIB. Of course, if your in one of those states that like to financially penalize folk like us, you might be right.
 
Well, I have a different answer. What you need is an AR15 in .223.

It is great for anti-personel. It is great for plinking. It is better than a pistol for animals given it's ability to hit your target at a greater distance and with a higher capacity. It would not be my first choice for a lot of game but shot placement ability and multiple shots at a distance make it possible to bring down about anything that you choose. I would rather try for a head shot on a black bear with an AR15 than any pistol that I know. I am not talking about the effectiveness of the cartridge but the ability to place a precise shot in a lethal location at a distance of relative safety.

Magazines are not as cheap as they once were but how does 20 bucks for a 30 rounder sound and you can buy the Colt 1911 GC series 70 next year for the range or for finishing the moose off after you shoot him with the rifle.

PigPen
 
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