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Australians lose the rest?
- Thread starter Tom2
- Start date
44capnball
New member
It seems with these leftists they just never get enough of gun control. Guns are mostly illegal in Oz, well they're severely restricted. So they have to get creative just to make people think they're being tough on crime. They know they're not touching crime by making it tougher on legal gun owners, but that ain't the real game anyway.
Look how it works in the US. A lot of people still think anybody can go into a store and just buy a machine gun. Havent been able to do that since 1934. Doesn't stop the liberals from trotting out machine gun scares every now and then.
Look how it works in the US. A lot of people still think anybody can go into a store and just buy a machine gun. Havent been able to do that since 1934. Doesn't stop the liberals from trotting out machine gun scares every now and then.
Lawyer Daggit
New member
Kevin Rudd the Labor Prime Minister to be shoots sporting clays. John Howard Liberal (read conservative) hated shooters with a passion.
I think we are going to be better off under Rudd (fingers crossed).
I think we are going to be better off under Rudd (fingers crossed).
Lawyer Daggit is correct.
Also, the best measure of whether firearms rights are about to be lost is not necessarily who is in power (lautenberg came under a "republican" congress and an (R) signed the 1986 ban). The thing you need to watch is whether our institutionalized enemies (Becky Peters/VPC/Brady) have the momentum, which is not currently the case because the public (even in Australia) is totally tired of the gun debate. The one thing that could swing things is not any election, it's these suspicious mass shootings that happened within a few years of each other in Canada, UK, and Australia, and all resulted in massive gun bans and roundups.
Also, the best measure of whether firearms rights are about to be lost is not necessarily who is in power (lautenberg came under a "republican" congress and an (R) signed the 1986 ban). The thing you need to watch is whether our institutionalized enemies (Becky Peters/VPC/Brady) have the momentum, which is not currently the case because the public (even in Australia) is totally tired of the gun debate. The one thing that could swing things is not any election, it's these suspicious mass shootings that happened within a few years of each other in Canada, UK, and Australia, and all resulted in massive gun bans and roundups.
Lawyer Daggit
New member
'it looks like the left have gained a lot'.
You need to remember that Australian shooters were shafted by tough gun laws in 1996 by a liberal (conservative) government the same govt that toughened handgun laws unreasonably- by basically banning smaller handguns-notwithstanding our already tight state laws- the govt that incidentally just lost at the polls.
I do not think any politician in Australia is about to try and toughen our gun laws further. I think that the evidence over the last decade infact supports the opposite- some loosening of the laws.
NB. Do not compare our Liberal Party too much with your Republicans or our Labor Party with your Democrats. You can only take that comparison so far.
You need to remember that Australian shooters were shafted by tough gun laws in 1996 by a liberal (conservative) government the same govt that toughened handgun laws unreasonably- by basically banning smaller handguns-notwithstanding our already tight state laws- the govt that incidentally just lost at the polls.
I do not think any politician in Australia is about to try and toughen our gun laws further. I think that the evidence over the last decade infact supports the opposite- some loosening of the laws.
NB. Do not compare our Liberal Party too much with your Republicans or our Labor Party with your Democrats. You can only take that comparison so far.
Lawyer Daggit
New member
Under the legislation we have gained some ground- we now have access to considerable public lands for hunting.
However, semi auto rifles, pump action shotguns are unattainable unless you have a specifically bad vermin problem, registration of firearms and cooling off periods is a pain.
After having the legislation for 10 years there is mounting evidence that it has not worked as intended and there may be scope for rolling back the legislation- although I think the risk of couple of Osama's mates walking into a shopping centre in a suburb with a large jewish population armed with semi autos or even another nut case inspired massacre like Port Arthur or Strathfield would be regarded as to much of a risk.
Realistically we may see some administrative tinkering with the legislation or its implementation that makes it more liveable- and in this regard while there are 8 points of simmilarity in the legislation as it stands in each Australian state, there are marked differences between them on the attitude adopted by the registries.
However, semi auto rifles, pump action shotguns are unattainable unless you have a specifically bad vermin problem, registration of firearms and cooling off periods is a pain.
After having the legislation for 10 years there is mounting evidence that it has not worked as intended and there may be scope for rolling back the legislation- although I think the risk of couple of Osama's mates walking into a shopping centre in a suburb with a large jewish population armed with semi autos or even another nut case inspired massacre like Port Arthur or Strathfield would be regarded as to much of a risk.
Realistically we may see some administrative tinkering with the legislation or its implementation that makes it more liveable- and in this regard while there are 8 points of simmilarity in the legislation as it stands in each Australian state, there are marked differences between them on the attitude adopted by the registries.
Too bad about no semis, you could have a blast plinking with rimfire semis. They eat up ammo that is pretty inexpensive and no worries about the cost or saving the cases. Then again with metal salvage prices, brass could be a valuable item if you could aquire all the leftovers at a range. Presumably you can still shoot SMLE's and those can be fired rather quickly, as I understand. Depending on technique. Mine is sort of in limbo until I can deal with the loose front sight.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Was the main issue, Australia's contribution in Iraq and Afghanistan? I've seen that suggested.
I've talked to some Australian shooters who said that the main defense against the gun ban was to apply to the sportsman argument. Don't take away our guns as they are used for sport. Sport being crucial to the Australian and thus it was thought that argument had appeal. There was no tradition of RKBA for self-defense or protection against tyranny.
However, the sports argument failed. This from an Australian shooter who now lives here. Big CAS fan, BTW.
I've talked to some Australian shooters who said that the main defense against the gun ban was to apply to the sportsman argument. Don't take away our guns as they are used for sport. Sport being crucial to the Australian and thus it was thought that argument had appeal. There was no tradition of RKBA for self-defense or protection against tyranny.
However, the sports argument failed. This from an Australian shooter who now lives here. Big CAS fan, BTW.
Lawyer Daggit
New member
Glenn, the election was essentially about:
-Unpopular workplace legislation imposed by the Liberal Party when they controlled both houses of Parliament during their last term.
-Politicians being out of touch and arrogant.
- Our interest rates increasing (largely as a result of US interest rate movement and out of Parliament's control- but it does not stop the punters punishing the Politicians)
Yes, Labor will pull us out of Iraq, however, most Australians were skeptical about WMD for starters and regime change / securing oil supplies is not ground for waging war. We have not had a large body count from Iraq as our presence has largely been SF's and specialists not 'bayonets'- had body count been higher result of Iraq war I think our involvement would have been more unpopular. However, most Australians regard meeting our defence committments with the US to be important.
Labor Party is committed to maintaining our involvement in Afghanistan. A war most Aussies consider 'just'.
-Unpopular workplace legislation imposed by the Liberal Party when they controlled both houses of Parliament during their last term.
-Politicians being out of touch and arrogant.
- Our interest rates increasing (largely as a result of US interest rate movement and out of Parliament's control- but it does not stop the punters punishing the Politicians)
Yes, Labor will pull us out of Iraq, however, most Australians were skeptical about WMD for starters and regime change / securing oil supplies is not ground for waging war. We have not had a large body count from Iraq as our presence has largely been SF's and specialists not 'bayonets'- had body count been higher result of Iraq war I think our involvement would have been more unpopular. However, most Australians regard meeting our defence committments with the US to be important.
Labor Party is committed to maintaining our involvement in Afghanistan. A war most Aussies consider 'just'.
Benonymous
New member
Little Johnny
If it hadn't been for Little Johnny I probably wouldn't own any firearms now or have a pistol license. After those laws came in, and others were threatened I chose to become a gun owner for the first time. My strong belief is that a disarmed population is a sitting duck for any Government. Once they've got you defenceless, they can't help themselves pressing home the advantage.
We have no constitutional right to own firearms here only laws. John Howard made a very popular move at the time of the Port Arthur mass murder. He forced through a bunch of restrictive laws without proper debate or parliamentary scrutiny. Nobody had the guts to stand up to him at the time and use the constitution to stop him. It would have been political suicide. Since then there has been further restrictions on handguns which involved a second gun buyback which cost taxpayers an all up total of around 500 million dollars for both the initial round-up of semis and pump shotguns and the pistol buyback that rounded up all concealable and pistols over .40 caliber.
It is a no brainer for the non gun owning public. Less guns mean "we're safer" but they never consider criminal ownership which remains unchanged in the face of even a complete ban. Jon Howard has been kicked out of office for reasons already posted. The effect of the gun laws was to buy him votes in his second term. The only serious backlash effect was in the last New South Wales election where the Shooters Party managed to get a second MP into the State government, giving them a huge voting advantage. The last time someone brought up the subject of "more restrictive gun laws" in the N.S.W parliament, they were dismissed with a wave of the hand by the Labour Premier.
If it hadn't been for Little Johnny I probably wouldn't own any firearms now or have a pistol license. After those laws came in, and others were threatened I chose to become a gun owner for the first time. My strong belief is that a disarmed population is a sitting duck for any Government. Once they've got you defenceless, they can't help themselves pressing home the advantage.
We have no constitutional right to own firearms here only laws. John Howard made a very popular move at the time of the Port Arthur mass murder. He forced through a bunch of restrictive laws without proper debate or parliamentary scrutiny. Nobody had the guts to stand up to him at the time and use the constitution to stop him. It would have been political suicide. Since then there has been further restrictions on handguns which involved a second gun buyback which cost taxpayers an all up total of around 500 million dollars for both the initial round-up of semis and pump shotguns and the pistol buyback that rounded up all concealable and pistols over .40 caliber.
It is a no brainer for the non gun owning public. Less guns mean "we're safer" but they never consider criminal ownership which remains unchanged in the face of even a complete ban. Jon Howard has been kicked out of office for reasons already posted. The effect of the gun laws was to buy him votes in his second term. The only serious backlash effect was in the last New South Wales election where the Shooters Party managed to get a second MP into the State government, giving them a huge voting advantage. The last time someone brought up the subject of "more restrictive gun laws" in the N.S.W parliament, they were dismissed with a wave of the hand by the Labour Premier.
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Legally speaking he had no authority to implement them in the first place. Firearms laws are a state matter (i believe QLD actively resisted)
But Johnny just said do what i say or i'll ban imports completely, so people pretty much had to just shut up and make the best of things.
But Johnny just said do what i say or i'll ban imports completely, so people pretty much had to just shut up and make the best of things.
Lawyer Daggit
New member
Benonymous - I agree entirely
Smenkhare- Federal / State powers are always a greasy area- importation is clearly in the Federal arena. The Cwth Gov has no power under the Constitution to gut into gun regulation per se.
Since the Commonwealth took over the raising of taxes as a wartime measure it has left the Commonwealth in control of the purse strings- consequently the Federal Gov can blackmail states in order to get their agreement.
I think the deisel fuel rebate was used to blackmail nationals.
Anyway- I was glad to see him loose his seat. At least he will be rememb ered as the first Prime Minister since the 1920's to loose his seat-probably not the thing he wanted history to remember him for.
Smenkhare- Federal / State powers are always a greasy area- importation is clearly in the Federal arena. The Cwth Gov has no power under the Constitution to gut into gun regulation per se.
Since the Commonwealth took over the raising of taxes as a wartime measure it has left the Commonwealth in control of the purse strings- consequently the Federal Gov can blackmail states in order to get their agreement.
I think the deisel fuel rebate was used to blackmail nationals.
Anyway- I was glad to see him loose his seat. At least he will be rememb ered as the first Prime Minister since the 1920's to loose his seat-probably not the thing he wanted history to remember him for.
I was a bit uneasy about the Iraq conflict as compared to the Afghan one, but I suppose it was a thorny problem that had to be dealt with one way or another at some point. Best bet now is just do whatever needs to get a reasonably good outcome. Some are concerned that there may be some kind of US presence there in the future, but we have been in Europe and Asia for quite a long time after the previous big war. Wonder about the necessity of much presence needed in Europe these days though.
It's frightening when people say they "don't mind" _____ infringement on their God given rights. It's scary to see citizens become used to certain items of tyranny. It's scary because the right you are free to exercise today may become the thing your neighbor "doesn't mind" being infringed upon tomorrow. When that mentality sets in, all rights are fair game to be taken away. The only question is which one will be picked off next.i don't much mind the cooling off period (although they could reduce it for subsequent purchases after you buy your first firearm) but really ticked off with the no semi's - smenkhare
Anyway, how long is the "cooling off" period in Australia?
Blame the media
The biggest threat to gun ownership whether in Australia or the U.S. is not from politicians but from the anti-gun media. Whenever some nut goes berserk with a gun the media gets hysterical about guns and wants them banned. Politicians then re-act to this media pressure by enacting " tough" gun laws to appease the media. You only have to look at newspaper headlines after these shootings to see what I mean.
The biggest threat to gun ownership whether in Australia or the U.S. is not from politicians but from the anti-gun media. Whenever some nut goes berserk with a gun the media gets hysterical about guns and wants them banned. Politicians then re-act to this media pressure by enacting " tough" gun laws to appease the media. You only have to look at newspaper headlines after these shootings to see what I mean.