Australian police adopt Gestapo tactics

B

Bruce from West Oz

New member
I've had a few "days off", and was beginning to feel a bit of fire in my belly again -- then this. I have to come back on TFL because, frankly, people, there's no one else I can let off a bit of steam to .... and at present it's coming out of my ears and every other orifice ...

Let me explain .....

We had two shootings today in Australia -- one a police officer in the Northern Territory, shot and killed by an armed fugitive -- the other a manager of a bar on a University campus, shot and killed by a disgruntled former employee. The revolver was unregistered, untraceable, and he had never held any sort of firearms licence or permit.

The ABC's "7.30 Report" on TV ran a piece on "Did The Gun Buyback Work?" Ah-hah, thought I, they've finally woken up to the fact that it was a waste of money and only affected legitimate gunowners.

But no, silly me -- the piece was about how the Buyback failed because it didn't get enough guns! There were still (gasp!) people out there with "prohibited weapons"!

They gave great amounts of time to the spokesman from Gun Control Australia (an expatriate American, incidentally), who said the "only answer would be to conduct virtual house-to-house searches across Australia". He then went on to explain that this was unlikely because [/b] the police are under-resourced[/b]! Excuse me, did I miss something?? Don't civil liberties come into this at all?? The only thing stopping house-to-house searches en masse is a lack of manpower??

But hold on, there is a saviour for the Gun Control cause -- the Superintendent of one of Victoria's larger metropolitan regions.

He, off his own bat, has introduced a system where:

(a) If your firearms licence expires, the police front up to your house, demand to see your licence and seize your firearms -- and then search your house to make sure you don't have any others!
(b) If you are involved in a domestic dispute the police "seize your weapons" and search your house to see if you have any other firearms!

He was quite smug about it, and seemed sure that he could do this under existing legislation. In fact, his officers have seized and consigned for destruction 2 000 firearms.

"Great," said the Gun Control Australia mouthpiece.

And the presenter, a smug little prick named Kerry O'Brien said, as he was closing the segment, that "police forces across the Nation are looking at implementing the same system"!!

As far as I am concerned, that's the end of democracy and freedom in Australia. We are now a Police State.

BT
 
I hate to say it, but it may be time to think about relocating to a new country. I've been following your posts for a few months now and it sounds like Australians have been exposed to too many UV rays or something. Is there any organized resistance to this madness?

[This message has been edited by ATTICUS (edited August 03, 1999).]
 
I'm ashamed to hear that the spokesman for Australian Gun Control is an American. We as Americans have no right to get involved with your business. I hope you don't despise all Americans for the actions of this one.

My sympathies for your situation. I'm curious to see at what point the Aussies will resist. Or if they will at all.
 
damn Bruce, that's scary stuff!!! i wished i knew a good way to combat it, but the only thing i can think of shouldn't be put on the net. hell, i'm at a loss for words, i really haven't a clue what to say :(

next thing you know the idiots here will try it too!!

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what me worry?
 
They also said Police admitted they have got only 15-20% of the guns banned in 1996. Estimates range from 300 000 to 2 or 3 million. Going on the numberr of guns imported by dealers it would easily be in the milions.
Go to www.ssaa.org.au read of details of the failed buyback.
Australians are too lazy to resist they just break the law. In NSW there are now 200 000 licenced shooters. That would be about a third of all gun owners in NSW. So that's 600 000 gun owners. In March this year at the State Election the Shooters Part managed to get about 65 000 votes. It's bad when only one in ten shooters will even vote for the shooters party. The Shooters Party isn't radical at all. See www.shootersparty.org.au for more details.
I mean how bloody hard is it to mark 1 next to the Shooters Party at the election.
Some of us go on despite this.
Our Shooters Part branch annual general meeting is Thursday week. It's on the same night as our hunting club agm, in the same room just an hour before. We will be lucky to get 6 people turn up for The Shooters Party meeting - but 100 will go tpo the Hunting Club one.
Through scheming I will be chairman/president of both :) or mabye it should be :(


[This message has been edited by rabbit assassin (edited August 03, 1999).]
 
Bruce,
Im glad ya didnt go away, and spout off all ya want------Im so sorry that we have exported our trash to your shores.......I know nothing of your laws or politics, it seems to be just a bit further down the pike then ours......those smug attitudes make ya want to smash there dam* faces, even if every firearm was given up by law abideing citizens, it wouldnt stop violence....we know that but ya cant seem to get the a$$holes to understand...fubsy.
 
Bruse, I refuse to visit Australia or any other country with such archaic gun laws. But I'm sorry to say, I believe this country is right behind you. I don't go into Kmart and now WalMart will not sell you ammunition unless it's for a rifle that is to be used for hunting. Pepsico donates to Hangun control Inc. - so now I can't drink Mountain Dew or Pepsi. Whittle away from the edges until before you know it - they've got you right where they want you. I'm now beginning to understand the phrase,"Give me liberty or give me death."
 
Not just in Australia.

I have not heard of them for several years, but a pamphlet from a group called Citizens Against Guns once proposed:

1. Declaration of martial law by the president.

2. House to house search by the police and military.

3. Summary "execution, without the nonsense of a trial" of all persons, including babies, in a house where a gun or a bullet or any prohibited item is found. (They claim to have discovered a "violence gene" which can only be stopped by killing everyone whose ancestors owned guns.)

4. Use of the "full power of the armed forces, including tactical nuclear weapons, against pockets of resistance."

There was a whole list of "prohibited items", including leather goods, fur coats, knives, books or magazines "glorifying the gun", camo clothing, etc, etc.

All this in the name of saving lives and reducing violence.

Of course, CAG is/was a tiny nut group; the "mainstream" gun control groups don't go this far - yet.

Jim
 
Ban guns, the rest of your "rights" follow (they aren't really "rights" if you have no way of defending them, think about it), the state chooses how and when it will enforce the laws, the sheeple follow blindly because they are weak and stupid. Its happened so many times in history, its as predictable as the tide.

I guess my question is, why is anyone surprised?

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"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper
 
Bruce, I too am sorry to hear about Australia's continued decline. However, I think this is what we will see in many locations, including the U.S.

As the anti-self defense crowd becomes more and more radical, I believe it indicates a slowing of the pendulum. That is, the more aburd, and violent their policies, the more obvious it will become to others how their campaign is just another form of fascism, not pacifism. I do hope that some of those 'others' will be the very LEO's and military personnel the anti's send to attack nonviolent firearms owners.

I certainly don't look forward to seeing me, my family or my friends suffer under such oppression. However, I recall it took many years, much suffering and countless debates until Americans decided that Viet Nam wasn't working out very well. Sometimes logical political change can be excruciatingly slow. And, often it requires tragic consequences before people wake up and use their heads. Hopefully none of us will have to go down this dangerous path much further before logic and sanity returns to politics.

In the meantime, I'm not going to hold my breath. ;)

Bruce, glad to see you poking your head in here now and then. Regards from AZ.
 
Bruce...
don't let them get away with it!

Jim...
"Summary execution", "tactical nukes", "violence gene"....so what do they propose to do with the LEO who do the killing? Seems to me they'd have that gene too :)

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
What What What?!?!?!?

PLEASE tell me that the rest of Australia has not laughed in the face of history's lessons?

Oi. I just don't know what to say. May the lord have mercy on your country if these tactics are adopted. Australia is reverting to a prison...
 
I'm glad to hear from all you guys, but every time I go through a series of postings like these, I can't help but get the feeling that we are preaching to the choir, and for all of our sound and fury, no one else is listening. How do we get our message out to the great unwashed? (meaning the anti-gun unwashed).

We need to do something besides talking to ourselves. What? I wish I knew. The anti-gun media in my local area will no longer print any of my letters to the editor. I think the NRA has to do a better job of counteracting the media campaign of making gun ownership undeserable.
 
Yes, it's truly amazing the for all the morons in our country, we still manage to maintain some semblance of civil liberties (thank god for the founding fathers). You would think with all that Aussie brainpower (c'mon, Brits and Aussies usually APPEAR to be "quite sensible, ol' chap"), they could figure it out, but it's like some gigantic mental block affecting the masses. What makes most smart people become total idiots when it comes to "gun control" - you've got me on that one - I suppose it's ignorance of the usefulness/operation of the guns themselves combined with the emotional power of the issues of crime and accidental deaths from gunshots (which of course are not "gun problems" but crime problem and negligence problem respectively, but the media manages to convince the masses these are gun problems)
 
I have given some thought to the question posed on threads like this....("What can we do ,I haven't figured it out?").

Well to me it seems that the general public will go along with the staunch anti-gunners for a basic simple fact of human nature.
FEAR ...Simple and straight forward FEAR, the NON educated public FEARS all weapons.
Be they rifle or handgun.
.. In their minds they are afraid of them because when handled and touched in just the right way...they react VIOLENTLY....hurling a projectile that can KILL , MAIM , or DESTROY PROPERTY.
This frightens them to the point of.... I dont like it , I dont want it anywhere near me, OR I DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE IT EITHER.
These same people have been led to believe that others can protect them from harm..(Ie..Police), and that goverment can do a better job of providing a safe and secure world, were they can pursue happiness....they forget that FREEDOM comes from working very hard, every day, by each and every individual person...Not by any goverment entity...who can only do anything at all, to so many people, by first restricting them, then controling them outright.
I could go on but it would leave the scope of this thread.

MY SOLUTION : For now I think the best way for us to combat this assault on our rights and liberty's as firearm owners...is to actively take as many of these SCARED and FRIGHTENED people as we can, one at a time , and ask them to allow us to show them HOW to not be afraid of GUNS..and the people who own them. TEACH THEM..how to handle,how to shoot,and how to make a gun safe, and how to store one safely.
" If someone does not know how to swim, we teach them..! So they can be safe and unafraid around water ..YES.? "

And at the same time we must continue our indivdual as well as colective efforts to lobby our representatives in all branches of goverment. No matter were they reside..that we will not stand for their destruction of our rights and freedoms...face to face you must tell them.
I have some doubts as to weather or not they take seriously the mass pre printed post card campaighns so often put forth by our NRA organization.

I will end here for now.... these some of my thoughts....I stand ready to Support my friends here in the USA, as well as you my friends in Australia.
Fred

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited August 04, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited August 04, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited August 04, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by WOLF (edited August 04, 1999).]
 
One of my major annoyances with "gun control" is that the Government will send YOU off to fight a War, supplying all sorts of guns/bombs to kill/maim as many people (that you've never met & don't have a real grudge against)then years afterwards have the audacity to tell you that as a private Citizen that you do not have the Right to possess any type of firearm that "they" deem to be unaccecptable.
Then, the Govt. still expects it's Citizens to go off (at their whim) to fight & die) in another War to then come back Home to be persecuted once again ! :([p]
Don't blame me, I didn't vote the current B@st@rds in, I voted Shooters Party !

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"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/




[This message has been edited by HS (edited August 04, 1999).]
 
Exactly what a WW2 veteran who fought in papua New Guinea said to me.
He has old .303s.
We did even worse in Queensland with the shooters party. Id say less than 1% :(
 
WOLF, that is an excellent point. And how's this for a constructive solution?

In business and other endeavors, you fight "fire with fire", or here, "fear with fear". If what you are saying is true, and I thing it is, then we have to make the average person FEAR an attack from an aggressor to which they have no defense or fear their government MORE THAN they fear the firearms themselves. How often have you heard it?: "I never touched a gun until I... had kids/got divorced/cops failed to respond to the 911 call/[insert whatever event that triggered the helpless fearful feeling here]".

Since people are usually reticent to fear the gummint (as someone pointed out on another thread, more and more people every day are on the gov't teat), the practical way is to make them fear a hopeless self-defense scenario. As much as I hate to admit it, preaching about tyranny/militia/corruption/new world order, etc. is wasting a lot of my hot air. It would be much more cost-effective to preach fear from crime, not only stangers, but ex-spouses, etc. It's this kind of emotional motivator which will cause the masses to see guns as a favorable equalizer, rather than a feared object. Many of the converts will still fear the gun, but they will nevertheless protect RKBA because they fear something else more. The antis manipulate with no shame. We ought to follow suit. Put the fear of god into the anti. Stick with the "gun-free home sign" or "what if a rapist attacked you?" arguments with the typical on-the-fence or othwerwise not-rabidly-zealous anti.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited August 06, 1999).]
 
Wolf. I too feel that the postcard bit utilized by some of the pro-gun organizations is being ignored by our representatives. I was talking to one of mine a couple of years ago, and he said he ignored E-mails, and postcards. He felt that if you could not take the time to call, or write a letter, then he could not take the time for you. I told him that it takes just as much time to type out an E-mail as a conventional letter. He does answer them now. However, when massive amounts of E-mail comes in on a controversial subject, such as gun control, the E-mail gets turned off, and I get a message saying my mail was undeliverable. So now, I print out a copy of the E-mail, with a statement that it is a copy of such for his files. It never fails to get a response.
When I get post cards to send, I copy them as a letter and mail them out that way. I have never gotten a response from a post card, but I do when I send it as a personal letter. I know it's a pain in the posterial region, but it works.
I wrote the organizations that send me the postcards to mail out, letting them know what I did. They told me I was wasting my time, and that their postcard worked. I guess they did not like my methods or something.
I heard that at least 500 of our representative REFUSE to even look at E-mail. What utter arrogance! I think this country could be better run with a couple of trained chimpanzees.
Paul B.
 
THIS country?

You mean "A" country? As in ANY country?
I agree there! Pick ANY country... And a bunch of chimps would do a better job running it...

Well, maybe not the Netherlands - they are doing pretty good there on there own...
:)

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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
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