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ATF Project Gunrunner
- Thread starter Al Norris
- Start date
a willingly gullible media
I am not so sure about this anymore. The same CBS that swallowed the "Bush Military Records" was the first to report F&F being confirmed for political gain. It remains to be seen. I imagine some (such as MSNBC) will tote the party line but probably not all.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Rep. Issa has announced he received a bunch more emails on Fast and Furious yesterday evening.
The significance of this is that DOJ claimed it had already released the relevant information to the committee, so if he is getting more information it signals that either DOJ is suddenly more cooperative OR that someone within DOJ is providing emails that DOJ hasn't released.
Could be interesting...
The significance of this is that DOJ claimed it had already released the relevant information to the committee, so if he is getting more information it signals that either DOJ is suddenly more cooperative OR that someone within DOJ is providing emails that DOJ hasn't released.
Could be interesting...
All it requires is for the Attorney General to appoint one. Or the President could go over his head and do the appointment. (You can see why both of those are non-starters here.)Can someone remind me of what needs to happen to appoint a SP ?
I think any grand jury foreman could take it upon him/herself to investigate -- kind of an ersatz special prosecutor. Good luck being taken seriously tho'.
Thanks... I forgot.
When you have an AG who's more than willing to use the agencies of the U.S. against the American people, that's definately a loophole in the process. A loophole big enough to drive the space shuttle through - as Hank Johnson would say.
Just watching the proceedings yesterday, I'm already tired of the high drama. I know Holder is going to have to return before Issa's committee, but doing this via committee is so tiring. I'm not sure who sits on Issa's committee, but from what I saw yesterday it just leads to a lot of drama.
When you have an AG who's more than willing to use the agencies of the U.S. against the American people, that's definately a loophole in the process. A loophole big enough to drive the space shuttle through - as Hank Johnson would say.
Just watching the proceedings yesterday, I'm already tired of the high drama. I know Holder is going to have to return before Issa's committee, but doing this via committee is so tiring. I'm not sure who sits on Issa's committee, but from what I saw yesterday it just leads to a lot of drama.
The significance of this is that DOJ claimed it had already released the relevant information to the committee, so if he is getting more information it signals that either DOJ is suddenly more cooperative OR that someone within DOJ is providing emails that DOJ hasn't released.
Perhaps I misheard him, but I thought that AG Holder said that there could be additional emails and papers that would not be released because (and here I'm a little fuzzy) he did not believe that the Committee was entitled to receive them.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Perhaps I misheard him, but I thought that AG Holder said that there could be additional emails and papers that would not be released because (and here I'm a little fuzzy) he did not believe that the Committee was entitled to receive them.
No, he did say that. The Obama Administration has withheld some of the requested material on the grounds of executive privilege. In fact, I believe that is what set off Sensenbrenner... he was pointing out that Congress was getting tired of asking for information it had been requesting since Jaunary 2011 and that if Congress started impeaching DOJ officials, it would take all the legal wrangling about what DOJ would and would not share off the table.
Then magically later that night, Issa has more documents. To me it looks like either the DOJ released more documents (though I doubt that they released all of them and I'd bet money that they withheld documents that they planned to release only after arm-twisting) or that one of the people testifying has started cooperating with the Judiciary Committee.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/09/c...-onto-nra-radicals-the-senate-holder-obliges/
Representative Hank Johnson puts the blame for Fast and Furious on the US Senate, for failing to confirm an ATF head, leaving the agency "rudderless". Further, he blames the "Second Amendment, NRA, Republican Tea Party movement" for manufacturing a controversy over Fast and Furious "which was initiated during the Bush administration."
As far as those responsible, he says that reassignments and personnel actions have been taken. And he has no reason to doubt anything that the Attorney General has said to this point.
That's from the video. What he said in committee was quite different, except for characterizing the NRA as one of the "Second Amendment rights radicals." Representative Issa took pretty strong exception to that, but I found it kind of funny in a dark sort of way. One never hears of "First Amendment radicals" or "Fifth Amendment radicals" or, really, any other Amendment radicals. Heck, there are probably more Twenty First Amendment radicals than Second Amendment radicals, and there are far more folks improperly exercising their 21st Amendment rights than their Second (although, to be fair, the first 12 obviously have greater significance than the remainder. Still...)
Representative Hank Johnson puts the blame for Fast and Furious on the US Senate, for failing to confirm an ATF head, leaving the agency "rudderless". Further, he blames the "Second Amendment, NRA, Republican Tea Party movement" for manufacturing a controversy over Fast and Furious "which was initiated during the Bush administration."
As far as those responsible, he says that reassignments and personnel actions have been taken. And he has no reason to doubt anything that the Attorney General has said to this point.
That's from the video. What he said in committee was quite different, except for characterizing the NRA as one of the "Second Amendment rights radicals." Representative Issa took pretty strong exception to that, but I found it kind of funny in a dark sort of way. One never hears of "First Amendment radicals" or "Fifth Amendment radicals" or, really, any other Amendment radicals. Heck, there are probably more Twenty First Amendment radicals than Second Amendment radicals, and there are far more folks improperly exercising their 21st Amendment rights than their Second (although, to be fair, the first 12 obviously have greater significance than the remainder. Still...)
Armorer-at-Law
New member
They were given promotions.As far as those responsible, he says that reassignments and personnel actions have been taken.
HarrySchell
New member
Rep. Hank Johnson also was exceptionally worried, in a different committee meeting early this year, that the island of Guam would capsize because the US military planned to put a lot more people there.
This concept, that Guam would capisize, is just one of several similarly creative and interesting concerns bedeviling Mr. Johnson.
This concept, that Guam would capisize, is just one of several similarly creative and interesting concerns bedeviling Mr. Johnson.
That is quite a statement considering the significance of most of the ones that followed the 12th. Particularly the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, and 19th
Yes, it was poorly worded - I was attempting to point out their significance as the Bill of Rights. For the most part, while the rest of the amendments are most certainly quite significant, most of them act to extend the rights expressed in the first twelve to everyone. The 16th is sort of an anomaly...not unimportant, just an anomaly.
Perhaps I misheard him, but I thought that AG Holder said that there could be additional emails and papers that would not be released because (and here I'm a little fuzzy) he did not believe that the Committee was entitled to receive them.
If you want idea of what they released initially take a look at this:
While funny it has testimony in it too, and Holder was down right insulting (5:19):
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-21-2011/the-fast-and-the-furious---mexico-grift
As far as those responsible, he says that reassignments and personnel actions have been taken.
It is true. Those who blew the whistle were punished and moved. Those who kept their mouths shut and lied were moved up.
You can have my Cabinet Post when you pry it from my cold dead fingers......
Holder is saying he will not resign. No big surprise here. He is pretty brazen about lying to congress. I wonder if they will impeach?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/u...ith-republicans-on-fast-and-furious.html?_r=1
Holder is saying he will not resign. No big surprise here. He is pretty brazen about lying to congress. I wonder if they will impeach?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/u...ith-republicans-on-fast-and-furious.html?_r=1
Holder on criticism, according to a Los Angeles Times article I saw in Friday's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
The criticism is politically driven, he said. Funny thing about this is that, to an extent, he is right. Having said that however, there remains the fact of BATFE's screw-up, latest screw-up that is, Operation Fast and Furious. BATFE is located, by the way, at DOJ, and Holder's ever changing stories about who knew what and when, among other things, is lacking in credibility. Even if true, his sordid tales would raise serious question concerning his competence and attention span.
By the way, the foregoing leaves unanswered, the following questions, as to BATFE antics. How much beyond Holder's level of command and authority did or does this fiasco extend. To The Whitehouse perhaps? Who knows, and then how high up in The Whitehouse?
The criticism is politically driven, he said. Funny thing about this is that, to an extent, he is right. Having said that however, there remains the fact of BATFE's screw-up, latest screw-up that is, Operation Fast and Furious. BATFE is located, by the way, at DOJ, and Holder's ever changing stories about who knew what and when, among other things, is lacking in credibility. Even if true, his sordid tales would raise serious question concerning his competence and attention span.
By the way, the foregoing leaves unanswered, the following questions, as to BATFE antics. How much beyond Holder's level of command and authority did or does this fiasco extend. To The Whitehouse perhaps? Who knows, and then how high up in The Whitehouse?
Seems to me someone that supplies weapons to enemies of our country, should be treated like what they are a terrorist , and our Congress ,both houses have passed bills dealing with those that are enemies of our great land,They may be arrested and held with out even a hearing.So why are these people, Holder right on down not in jail held at least till they, give congress all the info and honestly answer all questions? corporate or we lose the key! All within the new law that we the people are to live with.
Actually a department of our government, headed by Eric Holder, supplied firearms to those who are enemies of the government of the Republic of Mexico.
That is an act of war against a sovereign foreign state.
I wonder why no one has had the gumption to mention that fact in the hearings.
That is an act of war against a sovereign foreign state.
I wonder why no one has had the gumption to mention that fact in the hearings.
Seems to me someone that supplies weapons to enemies of our country, should be treated like what they are a terrorist
Agreed, if they weren’t in high government offices they probably already be charged and certainly if this wasn’t handled under anti-terror laws then it seems to me the RICO statues would also seem to be a possibility as this does have much of the appearance of an organized crime scheme.
Fox News is reporting a growing move to impeach Eric Holder - I feel this is right on as what he did was a crime against our constitution and our people and an act of war against Mexico.