ATF Project Gunrunner

It's sort of recent however that the internet has overthrown the old media's monopoly on daily information. Which probobly accounts for some of the more outlandish behavior lately. They seem to be testing thier own relevance, and failing.
By omission....with this particular story. But it's still out there and getting louder.
 
I'm not so sure that such a time ever really existed in the first place. The media manipulating public opinion to fit their own agenda has a history dating back to Hearst and Pulitzer.
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It goes back a lot further than that. You should see some of the newspapers from the 19th century.
 
Research the term "Yellow Journalism". Came out a long time ago.

I am still wondering how high/big/foul this thing will be when/if it gets blown all the way open.
 
If I may be permitted to say this: if, after this much public airing, no serious changes come, then the republic is done. Period. Full Stop. End of Story.

Not that I trust our government, for which I work, farther than I can throw it. Which is to say, not at all.
 
Re the general media "soft peddling" the criminal fiasco that is the BATFE, it's current name, and the foul-up that was, is and remains Operation Fast and Furious, given the anti-gun, anti gun rights slant long part and parcel of media's "lock, stock and barrel", is anyone really surprised.

As for the role played in all this by our "elected things", the fact that "ATF" has been allowed to run wild through administrations both Democratic as well as Republican speaks volumes about the problems the citizenry face vis-à-vis their government , The Congress (elected things) being a part thereof.
 
Katie Pavlich says that there is a White Paper circulating in Washington that discusses abolishing ATF firing 450 agents.

Either Katie didn't explain it fully or she doesn't understand it herself but firing 450 agents doesn't abolish BATFE which has approximately 4500 employees.
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If the ATF was abolished I suspect most of the employees would be shuffled to other agencies, as actually firing them is extremely difficult. The 450 number is probably just the ones that are still in their probationary period, or that are in a position to be fired for misconduct.
 
On another note...

Can anyone tell me what Jay Dobyn's role in this is?

Was he involved in the actual operation or is he just jumping on the dog pile now so he can make TV appearances?
 
If the ATF was abolished I suspect most of the employees would be shuffled to other agencies, as actually firing them is extremely difficult. The 450 number is probably just the ones that are still in their probationary period, or that are in a position to be fired for misconduct.
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Assuming Congress had the inclination and ability to abolish BATFE, it would also presumably have the prerogative of modifying civil service statutes. There is no constitutional right to continuing governmental employment.
 
A Civil Service employee does have some rights. Unless these 450 agents can be released for cause there has to be a Reduction In Force (RIF) which takes several factors into consideration such as length of service, reviews, veterans preferences ect. The only way to do this would be to reduce the authorized positions for the agency by 450. The agency can decide which 450positons get cut. However theere are guidlines for determining who stays and who goes. So the agency would have to follow those rules to decide who stays and who goes.
 
Eghad, Congress can amend/repeal those civil service regs at any time (with presidential signature or overriden veto, of course). The circumstances which would be amenable to the elimination of entire bureaus/departments/agencies would be just as amenable to the rewrite or repeal of civil service regs. Once again, there is no CONSTITUTIONAL right to continuing fderal employment - only statutory, an entirely different item altogether.
 
Eghad, Congress can amend/repeal those civil service regs at any time (with presidential signature or overriden veto, of course). The circumstances which would be amenable to the elimination of entire bureaus/departments/agencies would be just as amenable to the rewrite or repeal of civil service regs. Once again, there is no CONSTITUTIONAL right to continuing fderal employment - only statutory, an entirely different item altogether.
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They could, but why would they? If the ATF was eliminated, those people would still be needed in whatever agency or agencies would take over the ATF's responsibilities. Why go through the hassle of drawn out legal battles and negative impact on over two million Federal workers just so that you can more easily fire 4000 or so "good" workers that are already trained to do their jobs?
 
This was a political manipulation in the pursuit a political gain to impair a right given in the constitution with little or no concern for the good of the nation nor any concern by our government that the operation itself is / was a violation of the spirit and possibly the letter of the nation’s Constitution. – It promoted the loss of life, knowingly and willfully and in the hope than murder and crime would be carried out.

The system is broken, without leadership and unbound to constitutional responsibilities or restraints except where lip service is given.

The AFT, DOJ and wherever above need to be eliminated, reformed or retrained or some partial combination of the above.
 
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Wait a minute...

Agent John Dodson was ordered to buy six semi-automatic Draco pistols (...) then sold the weapons to known illegal buyers, while fellow agents watched from their cars nearby.
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According to that story, the ATF didn't just stand by and watch the sales happen, they were conducting straw purchases themselves. Why didn't Dodson bring this up in his testimony to Congress?
 
Self incrimination?
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I doubt that was it since Dodson was one of the initial whistleblowers who made Fast and Furious public. Without him going on CBS News, it might never have gone anywhere. Although I notice the Fox News article alleges that Voth may have assigned Dodson to that task in order to "dirty him up" since he was a vocal critic of the operation.

In other news, Sharyl Attkisson of CBS News reports that the White House said that NSC Staffer Kevin O"Reilly would not be available to testify to Congress regarding what the White House Staff knew about "Fast and Furious" because he was on a "previously scheduled assignment to Iraq."

The White House did not deny an interview; but also declined to say when O'Reilly would be available. Wonder what the assignment is? Searching for IEDs blindfolded? Considering he is the only direct link to White House Staff revealed so far, I wonder how Mr. O'Reilly feels about his assignment in Iraq?
 
I wonder how Mr. O'Reilly feels about his assignment in Iraq?
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What was that Sec'y of Commerce name who went down a while back... Croatia... (Clintons admin wasn't it?) looked it up, Ron Brown. Yep. That's it.

Hope he's careful. Next stop, Afghanistan or maybe even Pakistan to, you know, bolster the troops for the CinC?

What is that Pynchon quote WA has... If they can get you to ask the wrong questions, they don't worry about the answers. Seems appropos here.
 
Don't want to go into the C-130 crash outside Jackson's Hole and any links to Ron Brown's crash.

Anyone giving odds on O'rileys safe return.
 
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