ATF Project Gunrunner
- Thread starter Al Norris
- Start date
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
No, I don't. Let's stay in reality here.
We don't do Libya or Pakistan, BTW.
We don't do Libya or Pakistan, BTW.
The news story was aired Monday night on CBS Evening News.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Apparently a Univision reporter was willing to ask the President directly about this: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20046151-10391695.html
Short summary:
Serious mistakes MAY have been made and IF so, people will be held responsible. AG Holder and the President did not authorize such an operation and presumably will not be among those "held responsible."
It does lead me to wonder how you get multiple federal agencies and an AUSA working on this when nobody at the top authorized or supported it.
Short summary:
Serious mistakes MAY have been made and IF so, people will be held responsible. AG Holder and the President did not authorize such an operation and presumably will not be among those "held responsible."
It does lead me to wonder how you get multiple federal agencies and an AUSA working on this when nobody at the top authorized or supported it.
The problem is that the legal system did not allow it. The whole thing was idiotic.
So where did all the gun running money go?
And gosh letting thousands of guns across the border so that you can then point to it and say; "There are thousands of guns going across the border! We need to fix this!" does fall in line with some other craziness various governments have tried over the years.
So where did all the gun running money go?
And gosh letting thousands of guns across the border so that you can then point to it and say; "There are thousands of guns going across the border! We need to fix this!" does fall in line with some other craziness various governments have tried over the years.
The fact that a rogue federal agency has broken US laws should not come as a surprise.
BTW: The US ambassador to Mexico has resigned after Wiki-Leaks made public a cable where the ambassador dared to criticize the Mexican government.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/19/ambassador-mexico-resigns-following-wikileaks-cable/
BTW: The US ambassador to Mexico has resigned after Wiki-Leaks made public a cable where the ambassador dared to criticize the Mexican government.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/19/ambassador-mexico-resigns-following-wikileaks-cable/
Obama answering some questions on this matter.
Go to the middle of the page to see the video.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-31727_162-10391695.html
People have probably died because of ATF's selling guns to illegals and, for a long time, the Administration and ATF were blaming us gun owners, and our FFL's, for the illegal sales to drug cartel members.
All of this appears to have been a blatant lie.
I am extremely disappointed with the ATF. It is time for serious changes to be made to that organization IMHO.
ETA: New letter from Senator Grassley that was posted at another site I belong to:
http://grassley.senate.gov/about/upload/Judiciary-ATF-03-16-11-Letter-to-CBP-Fast-and-Furious.pdf
Go to the middle of the page to see the video.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-31727_162-10391695.html
People have probably died because of ATF's selling guns to illegals and, for a long time, the Administration and ATF were blaming us gun owners, and our FFL's, for the illegal sales to drug cartel members.
All of this appears to have been a blatant lie.
I am extremely disappointed with the ATF. It is time for serious changes to be made to that organization IMHO.
ETA: New letter from Senator Grassley that was posted at another site I belong to:
http://grassley.senate.gov/about/upload/Judiciary-ATF-03-16-11-Letter-to-CBP-Fast-and-Furious.pdf
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Spats McGee
Administrator
I watched the CBS news comments by the President. I find it unlikely that the President knew nothing about it, but I will grant that it is possible. I find it even less likely that the AG knew nothing about it. Whatever the facts about knowledge may actually be, I suspect that someone's going to step up to the plate, claim that he was entirely responsible, and be the fall guy.
To be able to say that most of the illegal guns in Mexico come from the USA?
Good question.
For what it's worth Glen Beck caught this story friday morning from Wayne LaPierre. I suppose he's about to bulldog it.
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/videos/?uri=channels/451373/1230933
Original article/compilation....
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/oba...ial-fed-operation-smuggling-guns-into-mexico/
Can you say Reichstag fire?
This is a typical Hegelian Dialectic wherein the authors of the "crisis" have a predetermined "solution"; and when the "crisis" fails to materialize the authors claim credit for its prevention.
In this case, they sought to show that there was an unbridled flow of firearms into Mexico which failed to manifest on its own. So they decided to help it along through a program which would falsely skew the numbers higher.
The solution was to be the enactment of restrictions on firearms to staunch the fallacious flow. The cessation of the authors' program would give the false impression that the solution had worked because fewer firearms would be flowing into Mexico.
They thereby gain political power while achieving their goal of firearms restrictions to American citizens.
Unfortunately, for the administration, their plan backfired and the same firearms that they were told would reappear did exactly that with devastating results.
As Rahm Emanuel said, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste; and what I mean by that is, it is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before."
This is a typical Hegelian Dialectic wherein the authors of the "crisis" have a predetermined "solution"; and when the "crisis" fails to materialize the authors claim credit for its prevention.
In this case, they sought to show that there was an unbridled flow of firearms into Mexico which failed to manifest on its own. So they decided to help it along through a program which would falsely skew the numbers higher.
The solution was to be the enactment of restrictions on firearms to staunch the fallacious flow. The cessation of the authors' program would give the false impression that the solution had worked because fewer firearms would be flowing into Mexico.
They thereby gain political power while achieving their goal of firearms restrictions to American citizens.
Unfortunately, for the administration, their plan backfired and the same firearms that they were told would reappear did exactly that with devastating results.
As Rahm Emanuel said, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste; and what I mean by that is, it is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before."
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Too bad the agency remained unmanned for a while, awaiting the nomination of Andrew Travers back in November. He could have cleaned this whole mess up just in time.
Would a Governor, for example Jan Brewer, have any options for bringing a better understanding to the matter thru the court system, if she was concerned about the way a federal agency was operating in her state?
Would a Governor, for example Jan Brewer, have any options for bringing a better understanding to the matter thru the court system, if she was concerned about the way a federal agency was operating in her state?
won-a-glock
New member
BATF / DoJ F*-ups no surprise
Why is this a surprise? I've been dealing with DoJ and other 3 letter agencies as a contractor for decades. Most agencies are mediocre, DoJ is bottom of the barrel from a real performance perspective. While their public and congressional relations offices are truly first class, most of the decisions appear to be politically driven (vs. doing what's overtly right or THE LAW), and consistently poorly planned and managed. (can you say "Virtual Casebook" fiasco?)
The problems that make it to the light of day are "only the tip of the iceberg" according to one former deputy director. The rest are often classified or tightly held specifically to prevent embarrassment, not national security. The root problem is an inherently corrupt culture starting at the top that needs to continue the CYA for face-saving and retirements. This tends to transcend changes in leadership.
In the recent ($10B ceiling) award Integrated Wireless Network program that is supposed to provided integrated and interoperable communications between various agencies, the FBI has taken a very parochial view that it's their way or the highway for the other agencies involved. So much for saving taxpayers $20-50B by working together, which will make the SBInet screwup by DHS look like chump change. This is going to hit the fan bigtime in the next 911 incident. Feel free to legitimately blame those problems on the FBI leadership of today.
In closing, I'll allow that some contractors believe that FBI most appropriately stands for "F*-ups Beyond Imagination". What BATF realistically means is left as an exercise for the reader. Any FBI'ers or BATF'ers out there care to differ?
Why is this a surprise? I've been dealing with DoJ and other 3 letter agencies as a contractor for decades. Most agencies are mediocre, DoJ is bottom of the barrel from a real performance perspective. While their public and congressional relations offices are truly first class, most of the decisions appear to be politically driven (vs. doing what's overtly right or THE LAW), and consistently poorly planned and managed. (can you say "Virtual Casebook" fiasco?)
The problems that make it to the light of day are "only the tip of the iceberg" according to one former deputy director. The rest are often classified or tightly held specifically to prevent embarrassment, not national security. The root problem is an inherently corrupt culture starting at the top that needs to continue the CYA for face-saving and retirements. This tends to transcend changes in leadership.
In the recent ($10B ceiling) award Integrated Wireless Network program that is supposed to provided integrated and interoperable communications between various agencies, the FBI has taken a very parochial view that it's their way or the highway for the other agencies involved. So much for saving taxpayers $20-50B by working together, which will make the SBInet screwup by DHS look like chump change. This is going to hit the fan bigtime in the next 911 incident. Feel free to legitimately blame those problems on the FBI leadership of today.
In closing, I'll allow that some contractors believe that FBI most appropriately stands for "F*-ups Beyond Imagination". What BATF realistically means is left as an exercise for the reader. Any FBI'ers or BATF'ers out there care to differ?
Gary L. Griffiths
New member
Or "F-ing Bumbling Idiots"
Biggest All-Time F-Ups?
