ATF ignores restraining order against business and raids Ares Armor

Wow...I certainly never suspected that was possible

So I can modify a TRO against me? That's amazing. And no opportunity for the other party to respond or be heard..."No, your Honor, you shouldn't modify the TRO you granted us because X"
 
This probably belongs in a political forum, but...

The current administration has been playing fast and loose with "the law" and seems to pretty much do what it wants.

This is not your father's America. The "little freedoms" are being peeled away in advance of the rest.

It's going to be a rough ride. Fasten your seatbelts.
 
This "restraining order" thing against a federal law enforcement agency is laughable. Yes, of course the feds ignored the "restraining order", if there was one.
 
"Unregistered" AR lower... there is no such thing, on a Federal level.
Here in FLA there is a company that sells 80% AR loweres as well as the jig so the purchaser can finish the process themselves.
You can also purchase lower forgings and machine them yourself ( no serial number required) for either of the above mentioned.
 
"I thought it was illegal for the Federal government to maintain any list of firearms owners."

NICS checks are only kept for 24 hours, and Bound books that FF's keep are contemporaneously kept, forever I believe
 
Ok. I don't build ARs and don't really get what this is about. I can shoot and operate an AR, and I can take it apart. But, I don't know all this terminology being thrown around. Can someone break this down in simple terms? From what I can tell, they were selling lowers/receivers made of polymer, and they were/were not considered a firearm and were/were not serial numbered?
 
Can someone break this down in simple terms? From what I can tell, they were selling lowers/receivers made of polymer, and they were/were not considered a firearm and were/were not serial numbered?
EP Armory was manufacturing polymer lower receivers and selling them in a condition the industry calls "80% finished" (or just "80%"). It means the receiver is not finished, is not ready to have a parts kit installed, does not function, will require machining by the buyer to finish it, and has not had enough work done for the ATF to consider it a "firearm".

As far as the ATF and (most) other government entities are concerned - outside of this incident, any way - it is nothing but a chunk of plastic (or aluminum, in the case of aluminum 80% lowers).
Since the lowers are not "firearms", they do not have to be marked like firearms. They don't need serial numbers. They don't need model numbers. They don't even need the manufacturer's information. In the case of EP Armory, they used no markings at all - the receivers are completely blank, with no identifying markings.

Not being "firearms", the receivers can also be shipped to anyone, without the involvement of an FFL. Most companies selling 80% lowers still require a signature from an adult 21+ years of age, but some don't care. Although that isn't directly related to the legal reasons cited for raiding EP Armory and Ares Armor, that fact is one of the most irritating things about these lowers, for the anti-gun crowd - prohibited persons and minors can buy one of these lowers to build an "untraceable, unregistered, 'Ghost Gun'" AR.

....But that's always been possible. Be it a felon or teenager, if they can mill an 80% lower, they can mill a raw forging as well (completely untouched chunk of aluminum in the shape of a lower receiver, that hasn't had any machine work done to it - a paper weight, in the eyes of the law).

Where the EP Armory lowers stand out, is their polymer construction. In theory, the polymer is much easier to work with, and much quicker to remove than aluminum. So, the "80%" polymer lower becomes a finished lower with much less effort, and in much less time.
In reality, the dissimilar polymers used in the EP lowers actually makes them much harder to work with, than aluminum. Drilling and milling around that fire control group pocket "block" is like sticking your hand in the mouth of an alligator. You don't know when, but it WILL bite.
 
Thanks! I get it now. So, how does the Sig P250 not get the ATF's dander up? Can't you buy frames and slides all seperate from the the trigger group without an FFL since the "gun" is the serial numbered trigger group?
 
Micahweeks Thanks! I get it now. So, how does the Sig P250 not get the ATF's dander up? Can't you buy frames and slides all seperate from the the trigger group without an FFL since the "gun" is the serial numbered trigger group?
It doesn't get ATF's dander up because ATF approved the SIG P250's fire control group as the firearm.

The P250 isn't the only handgun to get this approval. KelTec has it on some of their pistols as well.
 
I searched for EP Armory on google and found nothing about them being raided. I wonder if this is because they only sell to distributors?
 
So, the receiver is the "firearm" on an AR? And selling it incomplete where you don't serial number it is what these guys are doing? Once you actually finish it, though, don't you have to serial number it? Seems odd there wouldn't be a requirement for such a thing with all the other regulations.
 
Micahweeks said:
So, the receiver is the "firearm" on an AR?
The LOWER receiver, yes.
Micahweeks said:
And selling it incomplete where you don't serial number it is what these guys are doing?
In their estimation, yes. However, apparently the ATF disagrees.
Micahweeks said:
Once you actually finish it, though, don't you have to serial number it?
If you do not have a FFL, federal law does not formally require you to add a serial number. However, state law may say otherwise, and as with other federal firearms laws and regulations, there is potential for a dispute regarding whether you are "engaged in the business" of manufacturing firearms without a FFL should you later sell the receiver.

Suggest running TFL and Google searches for "homemade firearms receiver" for more detail; it can get complicated.

[Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. ;) This is not legal advice. YMMV and caveat emptor.]
 
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Savvy folks who wish to manufacture and sell "80 percent" lowers send a copy of said product to the BATFE Technology Branch for their inspection. The BATFE will declare the proposed "80 percent" lower a chunk of metal or an illegal firearm.

A failure to accomplish the above may result in arrest and being charged with a serious violation of federal law.

Example of BATFE letter:

http://scripps-cms.endplay.com/docu...1-3db5-4c1e-8217-e67b4fe898c0?t=1353277792420
 
Savvy folks who wish to manufacture and sell "80 percent" lowers send a copy of said product to the BATFE Technology Branch for their inspection. The BATFE will declare the proposed "80 percent" lower a chunk of metal or an illegal firearm.
Folks that don't want to go to jail send a letter describing the process and the end result, long before getting to the point that they have their proposed "80%" receiver ready to go.


I searched for EP Armory on google and found nothing about them being raided. I wonder if this is because they only sell to distributors?
They started selling direct-to-consumer, through their website, last year.
 
I do not understand why this company put itself into this position. Ares Armor seems like a legitimate company. Why didn't they just serialized the receivers, completed or not? Especially if they're showing their customers how to complete the lowers. If the lowers are sold by Ares Armor as incomplete lowers, when the customer completes the lowers, and then drills where shown to then complete the lower, then the customer would have created felonious object, in the form of an unregistered lower.
It doesnt matter why they did it. Bottom line is that it is their constitutional right and its being trampled over by these appalling criminals.
 
Thanks for those links, gc70. As it turns out, the court clarified that the TRO did not enjoin the ATF from pursuing "lawful criminal proceedings," including seizure of evidence or contraband.

Ares' inventory may not qualify as contraband, but that's a matter to be taken up in subsequent litigation.
 
There litigation will be ongoing regardless of the decision as to the decision on the preliminary injunction which is to be heard for arguments on Thursday. You are misinformed if you believe this issue is going to be left for "subsequent" litigation.
 
DOJ Opposition... first sentence, 3rd line.

Quote:
"possession of AK-15 variant lower receivers"

Ooops, whats an AK-15:D
 
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