Akins did nothing wrong with promoting their product the way they did. They recieved approval from the ATF saying that their product was legal. The ATF knew full well what it did. Now, years later, the law having never changed, they decide that suddenly this accesory is illegal. It is the ATF who is in the wrong.
ATF Decision Reversal on Akins Accelerator
- Thread starter VUPDblue
- Start date
V4Vendetta
New member
I don't suppose anyone here knows where I could get one of those for my 10/22?
Double Naught Spy
New member
The Fifth Amendment doesn't apply to mechanical devices any more than the 2nd Amendment applies to the rights of gerbils. Plus, double jeopardy pertains to being tried in a court of law. The Akins Accelerator hasn't been to court for a crime and been found not-guilty, then brought up on the same charges anew for the same crime...so no double jeopardy.
I just dug a shotgun news(DEC 10 issue, page 82) out of the mailbox this week and they had an half page advert selling those stocks....took my breath away what they wanted for one
975.00 to 1185.00 depending on which of the 3 models you got.
Yup, 10/22 165.00...stock 1185.00
...wife making me sleep out in the truck for buying a thousand dollar stock.
....ATF working off the AKins company shipping lists comes to my house
......wanting the stock or me(they dont care which)
...priceless.
975.00 to 1185.00 depending on which of the 3 models you got. Yup, 10/22 165.00...stock 1185.00
...wife making me sleep out in the truck for buying a thousand dollar stock.
....ATF working off the AKins company shipping lists comes to my house
......wanting the stock or me(they dont care which)
...priceless.
Travismaine
New member
True 100 bucks is allot for a stock. However a registered FA 10/22 will run you at least three to four times that. The ones that where already sold will most likely get some type of grandfather clause as they where legal when sold and even came with a copy of the BATF approval letter. Of course this will at least double there value.
A registered 10-22 conversion (Norrell, S&H etc.) will run about $9k-10k, so it was a great savings and they did work very well...maybe too well. Akins will fight this, but if they lose there will be NO grandfathering. BATFE doesn't have the authority to grandfather them; that BATFE issued a prior advisory opinion on their legality is irrelevant to the issue of grandfathering. Any units already sold will be contraband, unregistered machineguns, and thus worthless (...or worth up to 10 years).
see now here is the problem if the company was told that they were illegal in the first place and they made and sold them any way it is one thing now if ATF told them 10 yr ago that it is ok and now they reverse their standing that could be seen as entrapment and thrown out I don't see how they can just make up rules in the middle of the game as they go that is illegal to begin with. This would get thrown out in court I can see them saying you can produce no more from here on out and Grandfathering the ones in circulation but not confiscating them.
That would be the fair thing to do, but unfortunately thats not the way the law works; there is no way they could be grandfathered without Congress amending the law. And FWIW, BATFE will try to track down individual owners. They've done it in the past with improperly demiled Uzi kits, improperly imported PPSH41 kits, the SOCOM Mfg. RPD and M249 M11-9 uppers, etc.
Travismaine
New member
Not true. The ATF ruled them not a MG and allowed them to be sold. There fore the ones sold before the change are not MG'S. They will be grandfathered in. They cant simply say turn them in we changed out mind. My last post I said 100 It was supposed to be 1000.
.
With all due respect Travis, you are completely wrong. First, just because an agency renders an advisory opinion does not mean they cannot later change their mind or revisit the subject. This is why advisory opinion letters from BATFE are almost meaningless; they give only you a sense of BATFE's stance on an issue at that particular moment in time. It does not forever bind their hands on the matter, so a change in administration can have huge consequences. Now, remember also that machineguns are regulated by two sets of federal statutes - the National Firearms Act (in title 26 of the US Code) and 18 USC 922(o). The effect of 922(o) was to permanently close the National Firearms Registry and Transfer Record to registrations of new machineguns. Had 922(o) not been enacted, or if this was prior to 1986, BATFE could issue a tax amnesty on the ones already in private hands (as they did with the Streetsweeper ands USAS12 when they got reclassified as DD's - you have to register, but pay no $200 tax). However, with the Registry now closed to new machineguns, no amnesty can occur since no new registrations can occur under 922(o). And unfortunately there is nothing in either the NFA or in title 18 which allows BATFE to exempt certain machineguns from the law based upon their date of manufacture or their (BATFE's) error.
I'm glad you could put that 'on paper' so to speak. The ATF itself cannot allow new MG's on the register, but it can however change its mind a third time. Seems to me that the legal wrangling here would have to be over the very defintion of a MG as it appears in 922(o) and how that applies to the Akins device. You know, if we take the case against the Ill state trooper where parts of the NFA were ruled void for vagueness and then add a possible positive outcome (that is relative) to this Akins decision fiasco, the pendulum could very well begin to swing the other way on the entire body of 922(o). These types of cases are what shape our laws. I may be a dreamer here, but I am going to watch this thing very closely. If there is a way any of us can lend our voices or support, I suggest we find that avenue and approach it with vigor.
As stated above, ATFE has no authority to register new MGs pursuant to the '86 MG ban. Once it determined that the Accelerators were MGs, the items became contraband. Given ATFE's reversal, the items were essentially contraband the moment they were sold and the owners have to turn them over or be prosecuted.
Unless a federal court has determined the AA to be a machine gun, then the AA is not a machine gun. The Executive Branch, of which the BATFE is a part, has no authority to interpret law. The Akins folks ought to sue the BATFE, if they are not already taking the sateps to do so.
Congress delegated the authority to implement the NFA to ATFE, and that gives ATFE the authority to say what does or does not fit within the definition of machine gun. Because ATFE was granted the authority to make those determinations and issue the implementing regulations, federal courts give considerable deference to ATFE's decisions as to what the regs mean.
Atkins can sue, but it will need to convice the court that ATFE's decision was effectively unsupportable and arbitrary.
That may be true, but the Constitution, the highest law in the land, grants judicial power solely to the Supreme Court and her inferior courts. Giving the BATFE judicial power is exactly like giving a prosecutor judicial power; in other words, it is Unconstitutional.
Either the Akins Accelerator is a machine gun, or it is not a machine gun. There is no middle ground. If they can prove the AA is not a machine gun, they will have by definition proven the BATFE's stance to be unsupportable.
They "let it by" because it's not a machine gun.
However, it seems that they've got their panties in a bunch because it bumpfires (simulating the appearance of a MG) easily; at least in theory, as I could never get any of the AA's I've played with to run worth a damn. Some uppity bigwig paniced when he saw one being used and probably used his influence to try to ban them.
However, it seems that they've got their panties in a bunch because it bumpfires (simulating the appearance of a MG) easily; at least in theory, as I could never get any of the AA's I've played with to run worth a damn. Some uppity bigwig paniced when he saw one being used and probably used his influence to try to ban them.
The definition they use is pretty wide open, and I can see how the Akins could easily fit.
Unlike bump-firing when the entire gun moves--thus destroying any chance at accuracy and requiring a delicate touch--with the Akins, you just pull the trigger and hold it until you wish the gun to stop firing (just like you would with a machine gun). The only difference between the Akins and a typical machine gun is that instead of the just the bolt reciprocating, the entire action reciprocates as well.
I'm not saying that the current definition per the BATF is a good one, only that I think that Akin fits it.