"Assault Weapon" Argument

Paul Revere

New member
Now I suspect we have all heard the various arguments regarding the subject and definition of "assault weapons", but I thought I'd throw another one on the table for those interested. Its more of a rebuttal.

Now, it is my understanding that the lead argument in this debate is that these so-called "assault weapons" are quite deadly and there is no "legitimate" "need" for Americans to own them. They are constantly linked to various mass shootings from Columbine to the Jewish Community Center.

But lets use those two incidents as our example. The Tec-9 used at Columbine apparently was responsible for only one direct hit and then it jammed, most of the killing was done with shotguns. At the Jewish Community Center an UZI apparently was "sprayed" but killed no one, injuring a few. So, in these too cases, were "assault weapons" all that deadly? Or could we say that the weapon is only as deadly as the man (or woman) firing it?

What I mean by this is, many of us are very competent shooters, many have served in the military, are LEO's, have taken training and firing practice seriously. Imagine now the same weapons, as used in these incidents, in the hands of a competent shooter. Now, it goes without saying that 99.999% of responsible law abiding gun owners would NEVER stoop so low as to blow a gasket and haul their weaponry out to do a little human target practice as these nutcases have. But this is in fact the argument, that it is NOT the weapons that kill, but the hands and the minds firing the weapons.

Much the same as many NASCAR races where the vehicles all meet certain performance requirements, where it is up to the skill of the driver to win the race, accomplish the best time, and out manuever his fellow racers. All of those vehicles are capable of winning, but their operators are not. It is their skill or lack therof that prevails.

You can say the same about major league baseball bats. The bats are basically the same, capable of hitting homeruns, but only some players actually succeed in hitting homeruns consistantly. Or a grand piano...it can either be fiddled with by the hands of a beginner or play concert quality works of artistry by the hands of a skilled pianist.

A gun is just a tool, like the baseball bat, the NASCAR vehicle, or the piano. What one does with that tool becomes the individual outcome that mirrors the competance or incompetance of its user.

BTW, it is my opinion that the argument regarding "assault weapons" has nothing at all to do with crime prevention. It has a broader objective to create an impotent armed citizenry, by removing military type firearms from the hands of American citizens. The very arms in which our founding fathers meant for Americans to keep and bear to retain its precious freedom.
 
here is another argument

we ban the assault rifle because it is a dangerous technology for citizens to possess
semi auto handguns are the same technology

does that mean we are limited to only pre 1900 gun technology?


gee cars are dangerous
care to drive to work in a horse & buggy?

dZ
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.[/quote]

- Wilson v. State, 33 Ark. 557, 34 Am. Rep. 52 (1878)

[This message has been edited by Morgan (edited September 10, 1999).]
 
Ahhh, I am now depressed. One of the most unsatisfying topics for me, as it is "evil" to most people, and a good amount of gun-owners, too.

Paul, you are 100% correct. If it is safety we are talking about, and children, and stopping tragedy, why is there such a thing as corvettes? mustangs? ferraris? They go far and above the speed limit! Why does anyone need one of these? Geez, a yugo can break the speed limit if you are patient enough. I do not fear a gov't lead conspiracy to disarm citizens-though possible- but rather ignorant masses(and I mean this as "not knowledgeable", not in a derogatory way) that want to get rid of this "evil" I figure Colt revolver in my hand is more "dangerous" than a glock in a fool's hand.

Man, I need to cool off. this topic sooooo irks me.

there is not one distinction between a yugo owner and a lamborghini owner. Speeding tickets and prior violations do not even become a factor in what you can buy, just money. SO why the F--- can't I buy a .50 BMG if I can afford one? Dear God, I wish at least one person per town had one of those. If that happened, every Army on this planet, including our own, would know exactly what "Don't Tread on Me" means.

Damn. I'm gonna take a break and go smash something other than my keyboard. (we need a little UBB code thing for Anger)
 
Morgan,
What a great quote! Where can I document it (so I can shove it in front of a certain person's face!!!)?
 
I don't know what the case or context was. Unfortunately, I don't even know where I found that quote (I'm something of a wordsmith, and collect all kinds of quotes from all kinds of places). Anybody remember where I found it? :)

Here's one of my all time favorites, with a better source:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.[/quote]
-- William Pitt (Pitt the Younger) Speech to the House of Commons, 18 November, 1783
 
In the Supreme Court Miller case, wasn't the
statement made, to the effect, that a sawed-off shotgun was not a military weapon and therefore didn't come under the militia umbrella? Couldn't then, the argument be made that an assault rifle IS a militia weapon and that therefore no constraints could be put on it? Does that mean that, as a member of the militia, I am mandated to get an assault rifle? [g]

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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.
 
What if I walked into a school classroom with a fire extinquiser filled with pressurized gasoline and a BIC lighter? How many kids do you think I could take out? Does anyone really think I need an assault weapon to commit mass murder? It would be a lot easier to "make a hit" as well! Then you walk into the next classroom and do it again.
Then you get the kids running down the hall.

Did I need an assault weapon? Did I need a permit? Did I need a background check? Did I need a lot of money?

The attacks on gun owners are severly misplaced because one can easily kill en-mass if their mind is set to it. If hollywood were to start glorifying the use of gasoline just like they glorify the use of the gun, you would soon see many more people using this method to kill. More copycat crimes, you know? If the man at the Jewish center had used this method, every adult or child would have been dead or burned so horrably that they would wish they were dead. The point is that you do not need a gun to kill en-mass. But, even with this argument you still can't get an anti-gunner to understand that.
 
All this discussion still misses the point with me, esp. when discussing "assault weapons" with the unknowledgable. I have had WAY more fun simply pointing out what was banned.

Recently a family visited and a Yougoslavian exchange student living with them wished to see my AR, leading to some discussion of "pre-ban" vs "post-ban", and when I pointed out the inherent and obvious evil, needing immediate laws passed to protect the children, of the nubbin on the front which is the (collective gasp!) BAYONET LUG, on a shorty AR by the way which renders it useless, they at first did not believe me. Once they understood that I was serious, about the collapsing stock as well, and that the same weapon is now for sale without those features but functionally identical, I thought I was gonna have to call EMS they were laughing so hard. When I added that the name also had to change since it was included by name, it got worse yet. The term "really stupid" was uttered by more people than just me.

Such laws are inherently ridiculous on their face, pointing out just how ridiculous to the uninvolved always has the same effect for me. I mean, really, when was the last time one of the children was bayonetted? Or killed by a folding stock?
 
If you look at statistics of gun related deaths in gun categories assualt weapons is on the bottom. Why the hype about assualt weapons they're not used that often in criminal activities. The only reason is appearance. Just because they look "militeristic" doesn't mean that they are dangerous. This whole gun control thing makes me sick. The antis don't know what the H*LL their talking about. Why do we even listen to them in the first place, they are all full of crap.
 
Forgive me if I'm butting in here. I'm new and not sure of the protocols.

As far as "assault weapons" go, military small arms are rather severly restricted by the Geneva Convention and the Hague Accords as to their, for lack of a better term, "killing power." Basically, they may only use non-expanding full-metal-jacket ammunition. The end result expected is wounding rather than killing.

This is further borne out by the fact that American, NATO, Warsaw Pact and former USSR doctrine was that one wounded soldier takes a minimum of 10 personnel out of combat to tend to him. A dead soldier is merely buried and avenged.

Your dreaded AK47, AK74, AR15, Uzi, etc., etc., are, indeed, designed to wound, rather than kill, per military doctrine. Unfortunately, antigunners don't know this, and don't care. Once 'assault weapons' are out of the way, they will turn to hunting weapons, under the argument "We banned assault weapons, but these ones are SO MUCH dealier than those."

Just my $.02.
LawDog
 
Can you see someone attempting a drive-by with an M1A? Muzzle blast setting the headliner on fire, all occupants totally deaf, hot shell casings flying around the interior,(that M1A really spits 'em). When is the last time you heard about a mugger pulling an AK-47 out of his shorts? hee hee! What's with the "assualt" weapon label? none of my firearms have gotten up and assualted anyone
 
A few months ago I took my new M1A to show my mom (she's pro-gun). She asked me "what's the difference between it and the one you used to have and use at Camp Perry?"
When I showed her the bayonet lug was ground off, she said "That's supposed to stop crime?"
I didn't think she would ever quit laughing! ;)

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Happiness is a tight group!
 
The point of the whole "Assault Weapon" thing is that its easy.
Its easy to blame the object rather than face the truth that some human being are indeed capable of such horrid acts.
Its easy to blame the object rather than explain how the object works.
Its easy to blame the object especially when the latest popular action flick shows these evil assault weapons mowing down hundreds of people and never reloading.
Its easy to blame the object when it simply looks evil to those unfamilar with it.
Its easy to blame the object when its original full auto version was intended to be used in the most frightening act humans can commit, war.
And most of all, its easy to blame the object when the majority of your target audience has no idea what it really is.

Gun control is about lies, the easier the lie is, the easier it is to get the uninformed to believe it.
 
I seem to recall one of the head antis admitting awhile back that the assault-weapon ban was not expected by them to reduce crime. It was merely symbolic and a stepping stone to further bans.
 
so are assault pistols next in line?

i can hear it now:

a civilian only needs a revolver

semi auto magazine fed military pistols have no sporting purpose

assault pistols are the choice weapon of most gun crimes in the US

>>>>>>>>>>>>
once the cannon has been charged with this BS it's easier to swallow on the second volley.

RKBA!
doc Zox

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will you stand with me in DC on 10-2-99?
http://www.myplanet.net/jeffhead/LibMarch
 
When the framers of the bill of rights drew up the document, their intention was to allow law abiding citizens to possess the same type of weapons as the common foot soldier of the day. Their reasons for this have been discussed before and I won't go into them here.

It is obvious that the AR 15 and AK47 are the type of weapons used by the common foot soldier today. Therefore they are protected under the bill of rights and should be allowed to Law abiding Citizens without question or restriction.

Geoff Ross

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Damn!...I need more practice!
 
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