Assault guns, hand grenades and 50,000 rounds of ammunition are seized

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At what point do we stop saying damn them and start saying damn him.

When he does something illegal and evil.

I agree with all of you that he has a right to own some of those things but if the automatics and grenade thing sticks it looks bad for all of us.

If it sticks, it's bad.

But what indication was there that he did anything wrong? Someone alledged that he had a missing shovel...why does that give police the right to confiscate his AR-15s and rip them apart looking for conversion kits?

What will you think if they enter your home on a legit but unrelated search warrant, see your guns, and confiscate them so they can spend the next year examining and testing them to make sure they're not somehow illegal? and stick them in a warehouse and make you sue for their return?

What I find disturbing is that we get upset because they mentioned the magazines but ingnore the fact that this guy possibly posseses illegal and very deadly stuff.

BASED ON WHAT? I own an AR-15, SKS, and short-barreled shotgun (all legal, BTW)...do the police have the right to march into my house, seize them, and refuse return because someone acting out of BARE FEAR is afraid they _might_ be illegal and _might_ be "very deadly stuff"?

The Fourth Amendment expresses the RIGHT for us to be secure against UNREASONABLE searches and seizures. There was NOTHING to indicate that what he owned was illegal beyond "gee, that _looks_ like a machinegun or grenade". Fact is, LOTS of guns "look" like machineguns. Many people own inert grenades that are fully legal and harmless, but "look" dangerous.

Considering his behavioral trends, at what point do we worry about his future intentions.

"Behavioral trends"? He was sexually harassed and stalked; he did not do the harassing and stalking! He's the victim here!

Do we have to see a columbine before we say "Oh, maybe he was wrong". Please don't crucify me for this but at what point do we draw the line.

We draw the line at (a) anyone who harms or attempts to harm another, and (b) any governmental attempt to disarm potential victims.

This guy didn't do anything wrong. LEAVE HIM ALONE.

I have a friend who collects vintage guns and keeps them in his office at his business. They are in a large wall size glass display case and are quite visible if you glance into his office in his audio/video store. He has about 20 rifles and maybe 25 different handguns in all. They all shoot and he keeps some ammo in a locked cabinet. Nobody ever questions his intentions because he is an upstanding, law abiding person.

"Oh no, that guy keeps guns in a place of business! Sure he's a nice guy, but that was true of lots of mass murderers! He could suddenly snap and kill an annoying customer! Maybe those guns are illegal - has anyone checked recently? Somebody could break in and steal them and kill someone with them! ..."


Get a grip. The guy has a large collection...so what? There is no indication that he violated any laws, he hasn't threatened anyone or harmed anyone (despite possible reasons to do so). The cops were looking for a missing shovel, and forced a safe open in the process (WTF?). He has a library similar to many people's.

The real problem is that a bunch of reporters and government agents acted out of BARE FEAR ("I'm afraid of X, but have no rational reason why") or political prejudice, and proceeded to violate his RIGHTS.
 
sounds like in order to be treated more like citizens we gunowners need to think more like criminals

:( bad process to start running :(

Maybe Mr. Peacock should of kept his collection off site...

Maybe he should of taken his 85,000 dollar settlement from the state and LEFT Kalifornia

Makes you wonder:
many magazines sell their subscriber lists
Think the LA PD owns some lists?

better times to be...

dZ
 
Seized guns may not be prohibited
http://www.ocregister.com/community/crimecourts/guns001w.shtml
WEAPONS: Groundskeeper's lawyer contends raid was
retaliation by school district.

October 1, 1999

By JOHN McDONALD, TONY SAAVEDRA and MICHAEL CORONADO
The Orange County Register

SAN CLEMENTE — Authorities spent Thursday trying to determine whether any
of the 80 assault-style rifles seized in one of Orange County's largest weapons busts
are actually illegal.

Investigators from the Orange County Sheriff's Department and the federal Bureau
of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms were testing the rifles to determine if they are
operational, fully automatic or otherwise prohibited by law.

The arsenal was seized from the West Marquita home of school groundskeeper
Jerry D. Peacock, 43, the target of a theft investigation.

Peacock's attorney in a previous civil suit said the rifles are part of a family
collection.

"His father started the gun collection a long time ago. I think it was when (Peacock)
was a child," said attorney Michelle Reinglass. "He's not a Columbine kind of guy.
He's not a guy who is out of control."

Reinglass said the police

raid smacked of retaliation by the Capistrano Unified School District, which lost a
sexual-harassment case brought by Peacock and two other workers. The cost to the
district was about $800,000, Reinglass said.

"This is the absolute ultimate act of retaliation by an employer. His character has
been massively maligned," she said.

District officials, however, stressed that they called deputies only after receiving a
tip from a neighbor that Peacock had district property.

Among the district items found at his home were five pairs of safety boots, two
ladders, four trash cans and assorted containers, officials said. Peacock remained in
jail Thursday on suspicion of possessing stolen property with bail set at $1 million.

"We don't consider the items (as) small-ticket at all," said district Superintendent
James A. Fleming. "It's public property. The amount of it is less important than the
fact it was there."

Deputies found the guns, locked in two safes, while searching the home for district
property. Also found were hand grenades, machine guns and at least 50,000 rounds
of ammunition held in cookie tins and boxes, sheriff's officials said.

"I am horrified we would have someone in the employment of the district, on school
grounds, with this kind of firepower in his home," Fleming said. He said the district
would move to fire Peacock, who has been on disability leave for several months.

In September 1997, Peacock and two co-workers were awarded $215,000 in their
harassment suit, which alleged they suffered retaliation after reporting that a
supervisor committed a lewd act. A judge later ordered the district to pay more than
$560,000 in legal fees for the groundskeepers.

Reinglass said that during the trial, the district tried to introduce Peacock's gun
collection as evidence.

"They were trying to show he was a gun-slinging guy. The judge wouldn't allow it,"
she said.

District officials alerted deputies to Peacock's collection, prompting authorities to
arrive with a SWAT team Wednesday, district spokeswoman Julie Jennings said.

The district, during settlement negotiations, also tried to coax Peacock to resign. The
reason, said Fleming, was that Peacock was routinely out on disability.

District officials described him as an "average, satisfactory worker," who was often
absent.

The landscape gardener worked in teams of four, mowing, trimming and maintaining
grounds at the school district's 41 elementary, middle and high schools.
 
leedesert, I don't mind your comments, and if you were right I suppose I could go along with your conclusions. However, you are giving the school and the sheriff's department the benefit of the doubt right now. I go the other way, and assume this is all BS from the start.

So, now this next story noted above makes it even more interesting:

"... one of Orange County's largest weapons busts ..." So, it's not about a little school equipment after all, is it?

"District officials alerted deputies to Peacock's collection, prompting authorities to arrive with a SWAT team Wednesday, district spokeswoman Julie Jennings said." And, now the school admits this action had little or nothing to do with whether he had stolen property. The target was his firearms collection. Pretty interesting. If he truly stole school property, then that is wrong. However, I think it is appropriate to note that you can have your car stolen in Orange County and they probably won't even come to your home to take the police report. And, they sure as hell don't run around like this to find your car. This guy received very special treatment.

"District officials, however, stressed that they called deputies only after receiving a
tip from a neighbor that Peacock had district property." Try to square this statement with that above. So, were they focused on their stolen property, or the firearms? It's so confusing ...

"'I am horrified we would have someone in the employment of the district, on school
grounds, with this kind of firepower in his home,' Fleming said. He said the district would move to fire Peacock, who has been on disability leave for several months." I would say Mr. Fleming has certainly done his attorney a big favor with this little statement. Employee on disability to be fired for having a gun collection in his home? Wow. Boundless stupidity is truly awesome, isn't it? Even as nuts as California is, I don't think the district will get off easily on this one. By the same token, I can see it now - proposed legislation that school employees may not own personal firearms. And, I'll bet Mr. Peacock just hit the lottery - it will take a while, but I think he'll be able to move out of CA now - and permanently retire, thanks to the District's fine management.

leedesert, perhaps you are right, and perhaps this guy is bad news. But let's recognize one important fact - with the passage of more onerous weapons laws, aren't increasing numbers of normal, average, peaceful citizens made into criminals? Of course, we can demonize them with this kind of media coverage and harrassment. But that won't change the fact that their civil rights were trounced by thugs and bullies.
 
leedesert...
If you'll re-read you'll see that Peacock was suspected of stealing school district property "based on a tip by a neighbor". He hasn't been in trouble before, he merely participated in a lawsuit. What do you want to bet that the $1 million bail is due to the guns, and not the "stolen boots and ladders"?

This stuff happens all the time in Calif, i.e. the police detain, arrest or search someone for unrelated things and if/when guns are found, its splashed all over the news:
2 local stories to show this:

1)The CHP stopped a "weaving car" on the freeway in Santa Barbara. The driver is an elderly (60+) woman, who they suspect is drunk. They search the car and find 5 or 6 rifles and 5 handguns and 5000 rnds of ammo. Whammo the 11 'o'clock news is foaming about the "drunk woman with an arsenal on the freeway". News footage and there are the guns laid out on the pavement and this bewildered old lady. Guess what the truth was? She and hubby had spent the day moving to their new condo and this was the last load, on the way to the new home. He had the rental truck and she had the family car with the most valuable items.
Results: She was exausted, not drunk, all the guns were perfectly legal. No charges filed.
2) A financial consultant was suspected of bilking clients. The police search his home and the financial mis-dealings pale on the news when we learn he has: numerous firearms, including assault rifles, lots of ammo and "child pornography".
Results: yep, he had been playing fast and loose with his clients' money, and he was convicted of just that. The guns were legal and the "child pornography" was some pics on his puter (like many of you all have) of Penthouse, Playboy variety.

What is actually sick about all this is in both cases, when talked about, most people remember the "drunken woman with all the guns", and "the gun-freak pervert who bilked money".
In California, its a gimme that the cops will call the media and "first impressions" are reported and stick.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
stolen boots and ladders

lets see, he was on disabilty from a job that required his presence at several locations around the school district

maybe he wore these boots when it was muddy
maybe the ladder came home from job one and was going to be used at site 4-7 but he kept it at home

if he was terminated then the property becomes stolen when he doesn't return it when requested
if he is still employed then isn't he storing company property off site?

sounds like he was set up for a fall

and all of us are demonized

dZ


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will you stand with me in DC on 10-2-99?
http://www.myplanet.net/jeffhead/LibMarch
 
I was mad before explorer crashed while I was replying ;)

Among the district items found at his home were five pairs of safety boots, two
ladders, four trash cans and assorted containers, officials said. Peacock remained in
jail Thursday on suspicion of possessing stolen property with bail set at $1 million.

"We don't consider the items (as) small-ticket at all," said district Superintendent
James A. Fleming. "It's public property. The amount of it is less important than the
fact it was there."

A $1,000,000 bond on suspicion of possessing about $500 worth of stolen property???? Murderers & repeat offenders don't get that treatment! Or is that just so they can hold him because they have all his guns??? Now, they have him and his gun collection!!!

"I am horrified we would have someone in the employment of the district, on school
grounds, with this kind of firepower in his home," Fleming said. He said the district
would move to fire Peacock, who has been on disability leave for several months.

Yeah, and they were in his home, locked in a safe. Like they're supposed to be. I thought you weren't allowed to bring firearms on school grounds - When did they rule that gun owners couldn't be on school grounds, or be school employees?

In September 1997, Peacock and two co-workers were awarded $215,000 in their
harassment suit, which alleged they suffered retaliation after reporting that a
supervisor committed a lewd act. A judge later ordered the district to pay more than
$560,000 in legal fees for the groundskeepers.

Reinglass said that during the trial, the district tried to introduce Peacock's gun
collection as evidence.

Well, they couldn't introduce his gun collection as evidence that he wasn't subjected to a lewd act by his supervisor (that's a leap in logic, at least the judge didn't allow it), but thanks to a "neighbor," they found a way to introduce it, didn't they?

Reinglass said the police raid smacked of retaliation by the Capistrano Unified School District, which lost a sexual-harassment case brought by Peacock and two other workers. The cost to the district was about $800,000, Reinglass said.

"This is the absolute ultimate act of retaliation by an employer. His character has
been massively maligned," she said.

Yeah, sounds that way to me. I hope the Capistrano School District likes being sued. Maybe they'd rather their money go to lawsuits than for school books.
 
it gets better:
Arsenal Discovery Shocks Neighbors

By PAUL CHAVEZ Associated Press Writer

SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. (AP) -- In this easygoing town best known as the site
of Richard Nixon's Western White House, neighbors say Jerry Peacock seemed
like the average neighbor, a school district groundskeeper whose biggest concern
appeared to be paying for his duplex.

Some said he kept to himself. Brad Sewell, who lived next door, described
Peacock as a ``smooth-talking salesman.''

Authorities said a search of Peacock's home turned up 80 weapons and 50,000
rounds of ammunition. The weapons included handguns, World War II-era
carbines, assault rifles and machine guns.

The arsenal was found as authorities searched for missing school equipment --
rakes, buckets and cleaning supplies taken from the Capistrano Unified School
District, 65 miles southeast of downtown Los Angeles.

Peacock, 43, was arrested Wednesday and jailed on $1 million bail for
investigation of receiving stolen property -- the school equipment. He was
scheduled for arraignment today.

``He never mentioned anything about selling a weapon, and I never saw a gun,''
Sewell said Thursday. ``I've been in his little apartment there, and I never, ever
had a clue.''

Authorities were tracing the guns, and Peacock still could face possible weapons
violation charges. His attorney in a previous civil lawsuit said the rifles are part of
a family collection.

``His father started the gun collection a long time ago,'' attorney Michelle
Reinglass said in today's Orange County Register. ``He's not a Columbine kind
of guy. He's not a guy who is out of control.''

She did not return a telephone call late Thursday from The Associated Press.
Columbine is a high school in Littleton, Colo., where 12 students and a teacher
were slain in April by two student gunmen who killed themselves.

Assistant Sheriff George Jaramillo called Peacock's arrest a ``good ending'' to a
potentially deadly situation.

``You get a disgruntled employee, you get the schools, you get the weapons, and
you have the makings of a tragedy,'' Jaramillo said.

Superintendent James Fleming said the district will ask school board officials to
fire Peacock for the alleged thefts.

Peacock passed fingerprint and background checks when he was hired in 1993,
Fleming said. He worked as needed at the district's 41 campuses.

``I'm personally horrified that someone who has daily contact in the vicinity of
children and teachers owned the arsenal he apparently had,'' Fleming said.

He also said Peacock had been on disability since April and recently had knee
surgery.

Peacock sued the district several years ago, Fleming said, claiming that a male
supervisor had sexually harassed him. Fleming said Peacock asked for at least $1
million but the district settled for much less. He didn't have the exact figure.

``I don't think it has anything to do with the current situation. We regarded it as a
nonsense lawsuit,'' Fleming said.

AP-NY-10-01-99 0423EDT
 
"We don't consider the items (as) small-ticket at all," said district Superintendent
James A. Fleming. "It's public property. The amount of it is less important than the
fact it was there."
You mean to tell me that Fleming never "borrowed" something from school? Pens, a ream of paper for his ink jet, notebooks?
If the 'amount of it is less important than the fact it was there.' then I think we ought to search Fleming's residence on a "tip".

"Assistant Sheriff George Jaramillo called Peacock's arrest a ``good ending'' to a
potentially deadly situation. ``You get a disgruntled employee, you get the schools, you get the weapons, and you have the makings of a tragedy,'' Jaramillo said.".
What about the damage a disgruntled Administrator" can do?

What the Hell, I think I'll ask the Orange County Register those questions.



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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.
 
I'm Sorry guy's.
I missread the first story. Somehow my mind switched Peacock as the guilty party in the harrasment case.
With my error corrected, I agree that this guy with the right lawyer is going to make some money. I'd love to knock that Sherrif upside the head. He is so proud of himself. Cars kill more kids then guns ever will and I bet they are parked all around the school.
Thanks guy's for correcting my error. I just try to be careful before I jump to someones defense.



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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
Yeah, that deputy sherff should be proud, averting a "potentially" violent situation like that...what a pompous ass.

Of course, the sexually harassed employee wasn't disgruntled after he was sexually harassed, or while they were trying to harass him into leaving, was he? He's had plenty to be mad about for a while now, and he's threatened no one and displayed no tendencies towards violence. He's just got a gun collection locked up in his house (now in the county impound).

Of course, I guess firearms make you violent - that's why the county issued one to Assistant Sheriff George Jaramillo and all his deputies. Does he realize that his statement about Peacock (with the possible exception of his comment about the schools) applies to every person he works with, including himself?????

What makes them think Peacock would lose his temper if they fired him? Heck, they'd be doing him a favor, firing him after he won a sexual harassment suit! Man, the lawyers would be lining up to take his case!!!!
 
can anybodysay setup just the way this was worded it was to make him look like the most vile evil gun nut job what dose gun magaziens et. have to with missing janatorial supplys how many of us dont have gun mags reloading mags ect. in our homes i mean come on i have maby 2 years of guns&ammo,ameriacan rifelman,handguns,shooting times ect. i mean come on this is rediculious is his what we as a contry are comming to

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oneshotonekill
 
Is it really a shovel we are taling about?
Perhaps he was fixing it at home or sharpening it. Or maybe he needed it to dig a hole to plant a rose in overnight. Big Deal!

If it turns out that this guy has no illegal weapons in the bunch, then I say maybe WE all should stop talking and take some action.

This would be the illegal firearms confiscation we have all been waiting for.

If he's broken the law..then there's little we could do, but if not, and if he doesn't get those damn guns back....well it sounds like a tripwire to me.

I'm not talking about opening fire, but at least make a big stink about it and see where it leads.

Everyone in California and the rest of the country should be keeping a VERY close eye on this case. It could be you next.


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SameShot, Different day
 
"``I'm personally horrified that someone who has daily contact in the vicinity of children and teachers owned the arsenal he apparently had,'' Fleming said." I'm personally horrified that someone as monumentally stupid as Superintendent Fleming has any position in a school district other than as a particularly large rat to dissect.

$1,000,000 bail? For ladders and shoes? SWAT? For rakes, buckets and cleaning supplies? Color me cynical, but I smell bovine refuse. Actually, I'm surprised Peacock's gun collection didn't become a posthumous donation to the city police. This entire case stinks from top to bottom. Everyone involved on the city's side, from school superintendent to the SWAT officers should be sued personally, sacked, and be exposed nation wide for their illegal and unconstitutional actions. Oh, for a wayback machine set to, "Auschwitz 1944".

The ACLU better get going on First Amendment violations for seizing the books, and for the 4th Amendment violations. Let's see, 1st, 2nd, 4th amendments all crapped on by the caring government of San Clemente, CA. What a wonderful place to have a business and raise a family.

"``You get a disgruntled employee, you get the schools, you get the weapons, and you have the makings of a tragedy,'' Jaramillo said." What an idiot. It sounds like the Sheriff of Nottingham, er, San Clemente, is unfamiliar with the concept of innocent until proven guilty. He certainly doesn't know much about the constitution.


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"...the probability of the people in power being individuals who would dislike the possession and exercise of power is on a level with the probability that an extremely tender-hearted person would get the job of whipping-master in a slave plantation."
Prof. Frank H. Knight
 
Yes, the first and fourth amendments were trashed in this case,besides the second amendment. My point is that the STATE has already basically taken away our first and fourth amendment rights which will make it much easier to get rid of our second amendment rights. These elites of the western world arent fools. I think they figured a long time ago that they must first get rid of these other amendments before finishing off the second. And they have suceeded. While the gun groups over the years were fighting the gun laws(and usually losing here too) the Powers to be put together a big ,powerful corporate state where such rights as freedom of speech, protection against illegal searches and seizures, and states control over their destinies(Trashed 10th amendment) have all been severely courtailed or even eliminated. The BIG Boys said to themselves: "we can take your second amendment away from you by getting rid of these other rights first"! I give half the "credit" for their success to their evil satanic intents, but the othere half goes to the people who dont know what the Bill of Rights even are. Whose leading in the home run race?"
 
Heres what it looks like to me...
Sherriff sees a chance to snake a big grab and get some golden Media Time...
When is he up for election?

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Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
100+ K...locking and I'll start part 2

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
What I don't understand is how having a "disgruntled" employee with 80 guns is worse than a "disgruntled" employee with 1. Is he going to carry them all at one time? This case sounds like a joke.

If it turns out that the greandes where live, and the machine guns where illegal then he was breaking the law. But if they are ok, then he needs to sue the hell out of the city and make them pay for their stupidity.

A million in bail. Isn't that what serial killers get? I'm glad I moved out of California a long time ago.
 
I'm with SameShot. If all the firearms are legal, we need to set up a picket line around the district office of that school board, and maybe the sherrifs office, too.

Let them know that this is uncalled for. Of course, I'm reasonably certain they'll "find" something ... an unregistered SKS perhaps? (does he then get his $235?)
 
What a load of crap. It is a misdemeanor theft case and he gets a million dollar bond. Sounds like a miscarraige of "justice" and a misuse of police resources. Just as with David Koresh, they could have got him when he went to the store instead of a grandstanding swat raid. Pretty sad.

Glad I don't live in California, but this hysteria is spreading across the land.

Fury
 
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