Arrests in Terrorist Plot on Ft. Dix

A guy named Hitler had that same idea about all Jewish People. Not every Muslim is an Arab nor dedicated to overthrowing the world. I guess if being a bleeding heart is allowing people to practice their religious beliefs and practice free speech in accordance with our laws I must be one. :eek:
 
Anyone who knows me will testify that I am against the new patriot laws. If we cannot keep the constitution alive then let it die and forget about freedom. That said, I am very pleased that this plot was stopped. Our law enforcement people discovered the plot and stopped it. Hooray!

As for the intelligence or dedication of the plotters, they came halfway around the world, lived here for months if not years,trained with weapons and were prepared to die doing their deed. Friends, this is serious business. On a global scale it was a small plot, but it was HERE. And, it was foiled by a private citizen calling the authorities. An American defending his country. I hope that there are more Americans out there who will exercise an equal vigilance. The future of the country, and the safety of the country are in our hands. Not the authorities or the deputies we hire to enforce law. You ARE the government, and the final arbiter of what will take place in this land.

Rise up Americans and applaud our LE's. Take responsibility for the conduct of the government, dont let anything go unchallenged. Be prepared to contact YOUR representative and make your views known. Support your candidates and vote. Continue to be the most stiff-necked and well armed citizenry on the planet.

Remember flight 93
 
A large portion of my guard duty experience as AHA guard (ammo holding area) out at gunnery. Pallets of tank rounds and .50 and 7.62 machine gun ammo sitting there. The tanks were sitting maybe a couple hundred yards away. The only thing guarding the whole complex (especially since back then it was an "open post") was three guys, one 9mm pisol, and three rounds.

I'd always joke that anybody coming to steal tank ammunition was probably going to steal a tank as well (all they'd need was bolt cutters). And if they're coming to steal a tank and ammunition, there will be more than three of them...and they'll all have more than three bullets. Three guards, three bullets...yeah, the pistol was just there in case we got so bored we decided to shoot ourselves.

And no, I supposed my chances of being caught with a full mag would be slim...but living in the barracks I didn't really have anywhere to keep a magazine and ammunition (both off-limits in there) that wouldn't have a decent risk of being caught in a room inspection.

So yeah, the overall point is again that a military post is not nearly as secure as you might think. It just looks that way. This has changed somewhat in recent years (for instance, no more "open posts" I believe)...but still.
 
I hear it was a store clerk who turned them in after seeing the tapes they wanted transferred to DVD. If so, they must have gotten their battle plans from an old Don Knotts movie.
 
Thank God the store-clerk said something or there is no doubt in my mind the .gov would have absolutely no idea what was going on. Maybe we should ditch the border patrol and hire a few thousand CVS photo-developers to work our borders instead. Can't be much worse.
 
I can remember back in the Corps when the base MPs on a base I was at had loaded mags for their .45s. They were even allowed to put a mag into the mag well of their pistols.
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But, the hammers were "safety-wired" down, so they'd break it if they chambered a round, thus alerting the head honchos that one of the MPs actually loaded his pistol. God only knows how much paperwork that generated. :rolleyes:
 
I hear it was a store clerk who turned them in after seeing the tapes they wanted transferred to DVD. If so, they must have gotten their battle plans from an old Don Knotts movie.
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This reminds me of the movie The Patriot, where Martin says that Cornwallis' weakness is his pride and the French Captain says he would prefer stupidity.

Osama's organization isn't stupid and have pulled off some very successful attacks, including 9/11. We can't go on relying on his volunteers to be TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber indefinitely. But we can be thankful that some of his agents aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer.

So some of you enlightened people come up with an answer that will stop the war in Iraq and elsewhere against their radicals and arrest and deport or jail said radicals here.
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Nuke 'em? :eek: :D

In reality, that's such a complex answer that I don't think any of us could come up with a viable plan.
 
Techy, I just don't understand it. Do you think the terrorist attacks on 9/11 were carried out by the U.S. government or by terrorists? I just can't fathom this disbelief in the realness of terrorism without a belief that terrorists did not hijack planes and fly them into the Pentagon and the WTC, among other flights.
 
You're right Techy. Remember the six "terrorists" in Florida? The punks couldn't even afford boots (FBI bought them) but they were "plotting" to blow up the Sears Tower! Sure.

badbob
 
So let me understand. If the suspects are investigated by law enforcement, are not super-smart and/or don't meet a certain standard of a "normal" intelligent terrorist, don't possess an arsenal of guns/explosives, and are not allowed to fully carry out their a plan to kill lots of servicemen and women (or to fully effect their plan of death, destruction, and/or....um....terror), then they are not terrorists. Just idiots. The terror stuff is just all made up, and we have nothing to worry about, huh?
 
The terror stuff is just all made up, and we have nothing to worry about, huh?
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I don't think anybody is saying "The terror stuff is just all made up". We're saying the timing, in a lot of cases, is suspicious and there has been a lot of provocateuring (is that a word?). If terrorism is such a problem, why are our borders wide open? People will believe all the "terror stuff" when there is an honest effort to actually stop terrorism. Read this article and decide where the problem is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17874369/

badbob
 
I was listening to KTRH in Houston on the way home today.

Interesting stuff, some of it not in the media reports.

The plan was quite simple, taking advantage of the malaise about potential terrorist attacks of not only the general public, but of our own military installations. Using the access pass from the Visitor Control Bureau at Fort Dix given to terror suspect Serdar TATAR for pizza deliveries to the base, he and his co-conspirators would be given access to the base and once inside, open fire on as many people inside of the installation as possible.

On-site investigation conducted by Northeast Intelligence Network associate director and military affairs specialist Sean Osborne verified that TATAR’S family owns and operates Super Mario's Pizza, 19 Wrightstown-Cookstown Road, Cookstown, NJ. The pizza shop is located just 200 yards from the main gate of McGuire AFB and just under a mile from the Fort Dix Wrightstown Gate.
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http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/

Copy of the criminal complaint

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/PDF/Dukacomplaint.pdf
 
Another interesting article on moderate muslims

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/4497

In Pakistan, an estimated 100,000 people demonstrated on April 15 in Karachi, the country's largest city, to protest the plans of a powerful mosque in Islamabad, the Lal Masjid, to establish a parallel court system based on Islamic law, the Shari‘a. "No to extremism," roared the crowd. "We will strongly resist religious terrorism and religious extremism," exhorted Altaf Hussain, leader of the Mutahida Qaumi Movement, at the rally.

In Turkey, more than a million moderate Muslims in five marches protested the bid of the Justice and Development Party (AKP) to take over the presidency of the republic, giving it control over the two top government offices (the other being the prime ministry, currently filled by Recep Tayyip Erdoğan).

The first march took place in the capital city, Ankara, on April 14, organized by Şener Eruygur, a former general who is president of the Atatürk Thought Association. An estimated 300,000 secularists (i.e., moderate Muslims) held up banners with pictures of the republic's founder, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, chanting slogans along the lines of "We don't want an imam as president," "We respect belief, but not radicalism," and "Turkey is secular and will stay secular!"

A young woman carrying a huge Turkish flag, Muge Kaplan, explained that the crowd is Muslim and believes in Islam, but it doesn't want Islam "to become our whole way of life." A farmer, Bülent Korucu, asserted that the crowd is defending its republic "against religious fundamentalists."

Repeating these themes, a second march on April 29 in Istanbul boasted 700,000 marchers. On May 5, smaller marches took place in the western Anatolia towns of Manisa, Çanakkale, and Marmaris.
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Amazing that we see Paris Hilton's face plastered all over the media but we do not hear squat about things like this :(
 
We're saying the timing, in a lot of cases, is suspicious
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Well, what specific time do you think the arrests should have occurred, because we certainly don't want things to look suspicious. Should the government have obtained less evidence and arrested earlier, or waited until the terrorists attempted to slaughter American troops and arrested later? I don't think that the timing will ever be good enough for those who refuse to acknowledge terror in the United States.
 
Its not even a unique idea. Militia groups have been planning the same actions for decades and been busted but that rarely makes the news. There was a big case for instance back in 1997 when they were going to attack Fort Hood on July 4th because they believed there was a secret Chinese and UN base there holding troops ready to start the invasion of the country. They were however let out of prison back in 2002 and told to be nice people from now on.
 
7. Every few months the government needs to goad some big mouthed guys into following their entrapment so they can pretend they're "winning" this phony so called "war on terror."
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*sniff* *sniff* I smell a troll.

I spoke with a LEO friend today about this kind of thing. In any investigation regarding conspiracy, everything is "speculative" as long as they take no action to forward their plans. Their discussions, grandiose plans of murder & mayhem, even detailed plans are not necessarily a crime. But, if their plans call for all of them to wear powder blue jumpsuits, as soon as they purchase the jumpsuits they have taken an "overt action" to implement their plans.

Change the jumpsuits to weapons, or a type of truck or even combat boots... then the action of acquiring it becomes a turning point. If a planted informant is the one who volunteers "I know someone who can get us...." then once the group negotiates the purchase they've indicated a desire to turn their "speculative ideas" into reality. The group has the ability to stop before acquiring the materials, no matter how good the deal, and walk away from it - if they don't intend to go through with it.

Obviously you want the overt act to be something closely tied to the plan (stealing a UPS uniform for example, or arranging to use a pizza truck) or multiple acts that show preparation to execute the plan.
 
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