Arrested, Cleared, But Gun Not Returned

Just the other day, one buddy was showing his best friend a gun (unspecified what kind of gun in the news report). The gun was accidentally dropped and discharged, killing the best friend. The San Diego police confiscated every firearm in the house (five total, at least four of which were long guns). So legal or not, it happens.

San Francisco and Oakland were both sued by CalGuns Foundation for their policies with respect to the return of firearms to their owners. In the typical case, when the criminal case is concluded the Cal AG will issue a letter authorizing the police to release the weapon. But neither of these departments, due to some wording in the letter, would agree to release any weapon without further proof of "ownership"-- even though this was the procedure outlined by statute--and that a police officer had confiscated it from the person seeking its return was not enough "proof." I am pretty sure both of those cases were settled. An additional party was the AG, which refused to change the language of the letter so as to clarify the apparent ambiguity on which these departments were hung up.

There was another case in northern California--Marin if recollection serves. Elderly man was the victim of a home invasion--held at gun point and his valuables demanded. Being an old man, he told the crook he had to pee--and the crook let him go to the bathroom (where he had a hidden handgun). Gun battle and struggle ensues. Multiple shots fired. The police seize the old man's gun as evidence--apparently because the crook had at one point in the struggle gained control of it--and still have it years later, as well as another gun in the house at the time. The DA was going to allow the release, but then the crook appealed his sentence--and the guns remain "safely" locked away. How the hell these firearms have evidentiary value makes them necessary to the appellate property confounds my (legal) intellect. Whatever else may be in dispute, the ownership of the guns, or which gun shot which guy, is not.
 
62coltnavy said:
...How the hell these firearms have evidentiary value makes them necessary to the appellate property confounds my (legal) intellect...
If the crook's appeal is successful there would be a new trial, and the guns would again be needed as evidence. They could not be used as evidence if the chain of custody is broken.
 
I should have had this in my earlier post, sorry.

I can understand the police wanting to see some evidence of ownership, but on an item that does not have a title or registration like an automobile, documentation of ownership or transfer seems limited.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am glad that most of my "store bought" firearms came from the same locally-owned shop, so I could have a better chance of tracking down a copy of the 4473 forms.

I have one particular pistol that I am very fond of that was purchased from a nearby sporting goods store that has since closed. I doubt it would be so easy to get a copy of the form related to its purchase.
 
what if you purchased the firearm through a private sale, not knowing it was stolen previously from the person who purchased it originally, and that owner was never made whole, as in firearm returned?
A thief cannot convey good title. The risk of loss is therefore on the buyer.
 
Ok, slightly off topic, but I believe within the scope...


I saw a few people posting about digging up 4473's as proof of ownership in retrieving a firearm. My question is, is it ok, and/or legal to request a copy of your 4473 at purchase to keep with your own personal records? I worked at a LGS a few years ago and never saw this, but the discussion made me wonder...
 
If the crook's appeal is successful there would be a new trial, and the guns would again be needed as evidence. They could not be used as evidence if the chain of custody is broken.

Evidence of what? The old man was not accused of a crime--they took the gun that he used to shoot the BG. Further, there were only two guys in the house, and they both ended up getting shot. And the BG was arrested at the scene. Does it matter what gun was used to shoot which? Or is it a defense to say, Yeah I shot him, but that wasn't the gun I used." (I don't think so.) There are only two defenses available to the BG--I didn't shoot him, he shot himself, or I shot him in self defense. The gun is an irrelevancy.
 
62coltnavy said:
...Evidence of what? The old man was not accused of a crime--they took the gun that he used to shoot the BG...
The purpose of a trial is to determine the facts -- what happened. Each side will usually have its own version of the event; and each side will tell its story, supporting its story with testimony and other evidence -- including physical evidence. The jury then decides what they believe happened -- applying the law to what they have concluded are the facts in order to reach a verdict.

All manner of things which fit into the story of the incident, as told by either side, will then be evidence. If a couple of people each had guns and each fired his gun, part of telling the story is to identify who fired which gun and where each of the bullets went.

In a trial each side telling its story is a highly formalized process.
 
OK, then let me ask you this.

If an LEO shoots a bad guy and the bad guy is arrested, does the police weapon get confiscated, used as evidence in the shooting and held in the evidence locker until the case is officially closed?
 
If an LEO shoots a bad guy and the bad guy is arrested, does the police weapon get confiscated, used as evidence in the shooting and held in the evidence locker until the case is officially closed?

yes, we have three of them like that now.
 
yes, we have three of them like that now.

Are these "cases" you refer to concerning the BG or the LEO?

If the LEO was cleared and it was deemed a good shoot, are their Firearms still being held for evidence in the trial of the BG?
 
I don't know Georgia law or procedure but I do know that in some jurisdictions it is not necessary to always retain a gun involved in a shooting post-trial. I've seen many trials where photographs are taken of the gun and substituted for the gun itself following trial. I've even seen photographs used as the actual trial exhibits. There just needs to be adequate time and notice so that the defense can conduct whatever testing they might feel appropriate; i.e., ballistic, fingerprinting, etc. Obviously, those kinds of tests are sometimes not necessary.

You can't substitute photos for exhibits all the time. Sometimes, the circumstances of the alleged crime dictate conservation of that evidence.
 
Back
Top