Arisaka Type 38 questions please help

S

snowman748

New member
I'm new to the page and this is my first post so please be patient with me.

Ok, I recently picked up a heavily bubba'd Japaneses Arisaka...after some research I found that it is a Type 38 Series 5 carbine manufactured in the Nagoya Arsenal between 1933-1940 (I could be wrong but this is my best guess based on the markings).

Ok I purchased it at a gun show for $80, I might have over paid a bit but last time I did something like this with a Turkish 8mm mauser it worked out for me. The guy I bought it from said it was chambered in "6.5 Jap", I'm assuming 6.5x50...after I bought it and walked a few tables down another guy asked me what it was and said he had some 6.5 Jap ammo for it, as I was looking at the ammo to buy it his buddy chimmed in and said NOT to buy the ammo because he had "looked at the rifle earlier and it was chambered in 6.5x57 NOT 6.5 Jap". He then told me about how i could load 257 Roberts with 6.5 bullets after a little work necking up the cartridge but he didn't even try to sell me anything. At first I was a little bummed out because I tend to believe the second guy over the first since he didn't gain anything but instead lost his buddy a sell by telling me. I plan to do a chamber cast before I do anything else, then check the head spacing (if possible) but after some research it seems 6.5x57 is a pretty capable cartridge and not to far off of 7mm-08 which I've been wanting for a while.
I figure with all the work that's been already done to the rifle and the fact that it's been rechambered it's probably not worth the money to restore but instead make a sporter out of it. I plan to drop a Boyd's stock on it and a Timney trigger as well as do something about the bolt handle & possibly rebarrel. Please note I have the ability to reload (I already reload 223 and have reloaded 30-06 before) but I'm still pretty new to it. I want to use this gun for mostly paper punching out to 365 yards (maybe longer if given the chance) and rarely for deer hunting if possible.

Ok, hear come the questions...

Would it be worth a rebarrel to change from 6.5x57 to 7mm-08?

Would it be better if I just got a new bolt handle welded on or is it maybe possible to clean up the current handle and maybe thread it for a knob?

Would a Scout scope set up still be good out to 300-350 yards or should I look into a regular scope set up?

What would be the best way to mount a regular scope, just drill and tap the receiver?

Is there any other knowledge I should know about this rifle?

\/\/\/ Now the Pictures \/\/\/






 
I have the 257 Roberts/6.5mm50 reamer, I do not see the down side to the 257 Roberts/Japanese chamber. You could drill and tap the receiver for a scope or go with a long eye relief. My opinion, it depends on the rifling.

The Type 38 has a following, You can not loose money, there are claims the receiver is one of the strongest in the world, the receiver should be worth more than you paid for the rifle. I have three, problem: All of my receivers have a large gash through the inside side of the front receiver ring. Meaning? My receivers do not have a complete thread.

F. Guffey
 
Plus, I noticed the two smoke holes in the top pf the receiver. I use the smoke holes to check barrel condition. When I test fire the T38 I cover the receiver with a white towel. a good barrel will force the case to seal the chamber, when the barrel is worn out the pressure will be too low.

Low pressure will cause 2 black stains on the white towel.

F. Guffey
 
the bore seems really shiny and in pretty good condition, I've heard that 6.5 ammo has a tendency to "burn the throat up" and effect accuracy, I figure the chamber case will help me determine this. and I've read some guys have used the Arisaka receiver to make 300 win mag and 375 weatherby single shots but idk if that's true or not, i just wish there was a way to convert it to "cock on open"...from what I understand the timney trigger has a side tang safety integrated into it so I don't have to worry about that causing me any problems, I have yet to fully break the bolt or gun down so I might run into more problems there. I know when I bought the 8mm mauser it ddin't have a front sight and come to find out the ejector was broken but this rifle seems to be in better shape all around minus the fact that the bolt handle and stock are in terrible shape.
 
The other plus side to the 6.5/257 Roberts. I form 257 Roberts cases from 7mm57 and 30/06 cases. My forming dies are paid for, a formed cases cost 10 cents each or less plus time. The big advantage? I form first then fire.

F. Guffey
 
I worked up loads and used a friend's Arisaka 6.5x.257 Roberts for a few hogs. The round works very well, not sure where you heard the 6.5mm rounds "burn the throat up" as they are much milder than most magnum rounds. The problem you might have is finding dies for the 6.5x.257, RCBS made them for years as a standard production set, but now they are custom sets and cost considerably more.

The barrel on the one I worked with was rusted and pitted, after cleaning it the rust was removed, pits stayed. After firing a few rounds to burn out the residual solvent, the rifle grouped extremely well. I necked up .257 brass, fireformed with a light loading, then loaded with my most accurate load consisting of Hornady 6.5mm 129gr Interlock bullets and IMR4831 powder.

The bolt handle on your rifle has already been worked over as it should be sticking straight out with a ball on end of the handle.
 
The stock kinda looks like a reworked T-99. A lot of 6.5's with pitted bores are still good shooters. I am thinking for the price you paid it was a good deal. It is half way reworked already. A 7mm-08 change over will give you feeding headaches. All those short, fat cartridges will give you feeding problems in a 6.5 rifle. If you shoot longer 6.5 bullets, you will probably will have to open the feed ramp a little. I would D&T the scope bases on top of the receiver. The rear sight bases are not soldered on the way Mausers are and may not be that stable.
 
F Guffey - It all comes down to the cast I guess which will tell me if it's closer to the 6.5x.257 Roberts or the 6.5x57 mauser...

hoghunting - I've just always heard that 6.5 cal guns burn up throats and barrels faster then an equal cartridge in a bigger 30 cal bore or smaller 22 cal bore. but you know the internet, its probably all wrong anyway. I know the bolt handle has been worked over and it sucks, i don't think it's bent over enough to clear a scope and whoever cut the ball off is a jerk because now it kinda digs into your hand when working the action. i'd really like to have a handle welded on so it doesn't quite look so much like hammered trash. I at least want to clean this one up alot if I don't have success with getting a new one welded on.

Gunplummer - I'm not 100% on which stock it has but it's definitely made of two different pieces and not cracked like I originally thought. the last thing I want is feeding headaches, the more i research the more I'm sure I'll probably just leave the barrel alone. I have a friend who owns a Nickel plating shop that would probably give me a decent deal on doing the whole action and barrel to keep rust off the worn parts. if I absolutely feel like I have to do a change over it will probably be in the 6.5-06 to make finding brass easier. idk what all work that would involve going from a 2.222" case to a 2.494" case on the magazine well. also thanks for the info about the rear sight, if it's not soldered on then I really don't want to mount an nice scope to it.



I cleaned the rifle up and broke it completely down last night including removing the trigger, ejector assembly and breaking the bolt completely down and removed the butt plate on the rifle...the whole thing was full of grit and sand (esspecially the butt plate) and after a nice washing and lubing (I also noticed the trigger had a very nice polish on it) i got it back together using hoppe's on everything and a very little bit of frog tube in the trigger and now it's NOTICEABLY easier to work the action and the trigger has little to no grit and has a very nice break although it is still quite heavy. now i'm just waiting on the Cerrosafe to come in the mail...
 
6.5-06 is a looong round for that gun. I have owned two Type 99's converted to 30-06 and there is a lot involved with the feeding. The T-99 has a longer magazine well to begin with. I am not saying it is impossible, but there are parts to make and if you are paying someone else....
There is a .257 stamped on the barrel. Why would it be a 6.5x57? Back when that kind of thing was done you could not get 6.5x57 brass either. It is still not readily available. I have seen a lot of 6.5-.257's ( I used to collect Japanese rifles) over the years. I have never seen a 6.5x57 at a gun show, flea market, or yard sale.
 
The "257" stamp was usually used for Type 38 rifles reamed to accept a .257 Roberts case necked up to 6.5, a very common wildcat in those days. It almost certainly does not mean that the gun was rebarreled to the actual .257 Roberts.

6.5-257 cases are fireformed simply by firing .257 Roberts in the chamber; there is no need for filler or special loadings.

All of those rounds are based on the 7x57 case, necked down. Necked down to 6.5mm (.264") it becomes the 6.5x57 or 6.5-.257. Necked down to .257, it becomes the .257 Roberts. Necked down still further it becomes the 6x57 or .244 Remington or 6mm Remington.

And the 7x57 itself is still a pretty darned good medium game cartridge, even after some 120 years.

Jim
 
Well, maybe. The European 6.5x57 is not quite the same as the 6.5-.257 on paper, but it is darned close, and the 6.5-.257 is a wildcat and never standardized, so it is pretty much a matter of which version was used. Interchange might be iffy, but the 6.5x57 RWS rounds I tried in a re-chambered Type 38 worked fine.

Jim
 
Makes me wonder why they even bothered making dies for the 6.5-.257. As far as I know, they are still available. That pretty much makes it a "Standard wildcat".
 
We have to have wildcats, and it is better if there are a dozen versions, totally indistinguishable from each other in any apparent way. Else, what would folks like us argue about? Of course, we next demand that the cartridge be standardized and made available to the unwashed masses. But as soon as a major rifle company selects one variation and makes rifles for it, and the ammo folks turn out cartridges, we argue that they chose the wrong one and if the shoulder were only 27 degrees 12 minutes and 7.654 seconds, instead of 27 degrees 12 minutes and 7.655 seconds, the factory round would have 200 percent greater velocity and 90 percent less pressure. And it goes on.

Jim
 
Ok, hear come the questions...

Would it be worth a rebarrel to change from 6.5x57 to 7mm-08?

Would it be better if I just got a new bolt handle welded on or is it maybe possible to clean up the current handle and maybe thread it for a knob?

Would a Scout scope set up still be good out to 300-350 yards or should I look into a regular scope set up?

What would be the best way to mount a regular scope, just drill and tap the receiver?

Is there any other knowledge I should know about this rifle?
Click to expand...
Anyone?
 
Scopes, always the question. I can not answer the question, I do not know how well you see.

Chuck Yeager was asked about the difference? Someone wanted to know why all the pilots received the same training, the same plane and the same ammo but the ability of the pilot was not the same.

F. Guffey
 
F. Guffey - Yes I'm going to do a chamber cast to make sure of caliber before I put ANY ammo in it just to be on the safe side. Cerrosafe should get delivered today or tomorrow.

James K - I never even saw the 257 stamp, so it probably is a 6.5-.257

Gunplummer - this is some info I found about the difference between the 6.5x57 and the 65.-.257

"The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions lists the following grains of water capacities.
6.5 Arisaka 48.70 Grains
.257 Roberts 52.43 Grains
6.5 X 57 Mauser 53.73 Grains (also parent case for .257 Roberts)
6.5 X 257 Roberts 55.23 Grains
6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser 55.04 Grains"
 
Yes I'm going to do a chamber cast to make sure of caliber before I put ANY ammo in it just to be on the safe side. Cerrosafe should get delivered today or tomorrow.
Click to expand...

OK, I have a pile of casting material for chambers, I do not use it , but JIC.

Then there is that part about the firing pin, it is said the firing pin drives the case into the chamber and shortens the case from the shoulder of the case to the case head. Anyhow, I am a chamber caster, making a cast of a chamber is my #4 choice, or least favorite. By the time it takes casting material to be delivered I would be finished.

I am also a case former, I form cases to fit.

F. Guffey
 
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