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Arisaka 99, 7.7 ammo
- Thread starter Ukrainitz
- Start date
Hmm... at this point whatever you can get your hands on. These oddball calibers usually are the last to come back in stock after a gun panic too. Midway USA has some Norma 7.7 jap, $45 per box of 20. That’ll be the cheapest you find right now unless it’s been tucked away in a gun store for years without the price being changed. I would rate Norma as probably the best factory ammo you can get for it.
7.7 is more of a reloaders proposition these days. If you plan to shoot it much, at least.
7.7 is more of a reloaders proposition these days. If you plan to shoot it much, at least.
There's a few production makers of 7.7 Japanese ammo.
Hornady is the most consistent.
PCI did some infrequently and had a few issues a couple years ago that resulted in some squib rounds for people.
Norma is the pricey hunting ammo.
If you're going to handload, then buy 311 bulllets in the 175 gr range to get closest to the original bullet size. I have run 150 grain to 180 grain and my 99 likes the larger bullets.
First of all: take it out and tell us how she shoots!
Secondly, post some pictures.
Edit: and welome aboard.
Hornady is the most consistent.
PCI did some infrequently and had a few issues a couple years ago that resulted in some squib rounds for people.
Norma is the pricey hunting ammo.
If you're going to handload, then buy 311 bulllets in the 175 gr range to get closest to the original bullet size. I have run 150 grain to 180 grain and my 99 likes the larger bullets.
First of all: take it out and tell us how she shoots!
Secondly, post some pictures.
Edit: and welome aboard.
These oddball calibers usually are the last to come back in stock after a gun panic too.
The other side of the coin is that if there IS a stock of "oddball" ammo, it is usually the last thing sold out.
Unlike leftover ammo from the other WWII combatants there never was any significant quantity of Japanese ammo imported to feed the bring back war trophy Arisakas.
If you are a handloader you might be able to find some 7.7mm brass, but its always been hit or miss spotty, even well before any buying panic.
7.7x58mm cases can be formed from .30-06 brass. Base dimensions are not identical but rifle tolerances usually allow them to work well enough.
Of course, you'll need 7.7 dies, the bullet most easily found is the Hornady .312" and the 174gr RN is closest to the original Japanese weight. Velocity should MAX out at about 2400fps, same as the .303 British.
There was a strong British influence on Japan before WWII and they essentially duplicated the performance of the .303 British in their 7.7mm.
Norma is quality ammo and at a premium price. Always has been. Good stuff but not at bargain prices.
Blindstitch
New member
Sounds like you might be waiting a while to shoot it or you're going to have to reload. Of course powder and primers are out of stock too. Since I knew things were getting weird I bought more 6.5 jap brass and I might buy a bit more. As stated you're lucky being able to convert 30-06.
Should be fun when you can feed it.
Norma is probably the best ammo for that rifle but the others are probably pretty good too.
Should be fun when you can feed it.
Norma is probably the best ammo for that rifle but the others are probably pretty good too.
If you can find any due to the Covid Panic, and you're not reloading, you have to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo that particular rifle shoots best. Same as any rifle.
Where you are might matter.
Midway lists 1 brand of SP's. Norma only and it's on 'out of stock no back order'.
$28.99 per 50 for Prvi brass. Norma is 'out of stock, back order ok', at $74.99 per 50.
Graf's lists 3 brands with several bullet weights and bullet. All of 'em are out of stock. They do have brass in stock. Norma at $34.99 per 25. And Prvi Partizan at $29.99 per 50.
7.7 Jap uses the same .311" or .312" bullet the .303 Brit can use. 150 and 180 grain data on Hodgdon's site. The 180 will do for a Hornady 174 grain FMJ.
RCBS has dies that aren't stupid expensive and the shell holder can be the same as .308.
Where you are might matter.
Midway lists 1 brand of SP's. Norma only and it's on 'out of stock no back order'.
$28.99 per 50 for Prvi brass. Norma is 'out of stock, back order ok', at $74.99 per 50.
Graf's lists 3 brands with several bullet weights and bullet. All of 'em are out of stock. They do have brass in stock. Norma at $34.99 per 25. And Prvi Partizan at $29.99 per 50.
7.7 Jap uses the same .311" or .312" bullet the .303 Brit can use. 150 and 180 grain data on Hodgdon's site. The 180 will do for a Hornady 174 grain FMJ.
RCBS has dies that aren't stupid expensive and the shell holder can be the same as .308.
First military rifle I had was Jap 6.5 my dad gave me as kid. Then my uncles added to my collection with a 7.7 Jap and 8mm 98. They all were brought home from WW2. Anyway as young kid I was to little to shoot them. We had a cigar box full of 8mm military. When I got about 10 I started pestering dad to shoot the Jap rifles. Dad said no, a box of shells was more than the rifle was worth. He was right, Norma was only choice. A Jap rifle was worth nothing in 50s and early 60s. At the time there were Mausers, Enfields and tons of milsurp cheap. The US Military dumped all Jap ammo in the ocean at the surrender. Japs still had a big Army and many were not happy. Anyway I bought ammo when teenager, Norma and bought dies. Over the years had several jap rifles as well as other WW2 odd balls. Really only shot them for fun but loading them was only practical way. It was said Japs could fire our 30/06 ammo in the Arisaka 7.7mm. This is possible but not practical. Also there were many articles in gun magazines bragging about the strength of Arisaka action. This may be true also but I don’t believe many were putting money in custom Arisaka. At that time everyone was building custom 98 mausers.
We have an Arisaka 99 and have used Norma's 174grn 7.7 Japanese ammo for it. During normal times it's like $40 for a box of 20rds but now the only place I see any 7.7 Japanese for sale is SGAmmo.com at $49.95 per box ($2.50/rd) but with a minimum order amount of $79.00.
Options
I did a quick search on the web and almost everyone is sold out of 7.7 Arisaka ammunition. Try this site: https://www.steinelammo.com/product/7-7-x-58-japanese-arisaka-150gr-sp-light-recoil-arisaka-ammo/. A person on youtube has done a review on them.
Another option is to buy brass on Graf and Sons. He has special brass made for oddball rounds. Buy even a small box of 100 large rifle primers, powder, and bullets. Then, befriend a Reloader with some beer or whatever and have him assemble a few loads for you within safe load specs and maybe even using someone else's pet load. Within the load specs, I would guess that that Reloaders pet load is close to the ideal muzzle velocity the rifle was designed for.
Your third option is taking up reloading. You will find a lot of advice online and here. Just ask. I reload for a and early production Nagoya T99 Arisaka so feel free to ask if you choose to go this route.
I did a quick search on the web and almost everyone is sold out of 7.7 Arisaka ammunition. Try this site: https://www.steinelammo.com/product/7-7-x-58-japanese-arisaka-150gr-sp-light-recoil-arisaka-ammo/. A person on youtube has done a review on them.
Another option is to buy brass on Graf and Sons. He has special brass made for oddball rounds. Buy even a small box of 100 large rifle primers, powder, and bullets. Then, befriend a Reloader with some beer or whatever and have him assemble a few loads for you within safe load specs and maybe even using someone else's pet load. Within the load specs, I would guess that that Reloaders pet load is close to the ideal muzzle velocity the rifle was designed for.
Your third option is taking up reloading. You will find a lot of advice online and here. Just ask. I reload for a and early production Nagoya T99 Arisaka so feel free to ask if you choose to go this route.
It was said Japs could fire our 30/06 ammo in the Arisaka 7.7mm. This is possible but not practical.
According to case drawing specs this should not work, but real world tolerances of both rifles and ammo, says it MIGHT, but I would expect you'd have to hammer the Arisaka bolt shut to do so...
Also there were many articles in gun magazines bragging about the strength of Arisaka action. This may be true also but I don’t believe many were putting money in custom Arisaka. At that time everyone was building custom 98 mausers.
The "fabled strength" of the Arisaka comes mostly from P.O. Ackley's blow up tests. And, yes in those tests it took more to blow up an Arisaka action than others. People read this and went about oohing and aahing about how the Arisaka was the "strongest" action, without realizing that all a blow up test tells you is what it took to blow up the action (catastrophic failure).
It doesn't tell you anything else, and as a practical matter, what difference does it make if rifle A fails at 117,000psi and rifle B fails at 123,000psi?
Rifle B will be rated "stronger" but so what? There's no real world practical value to that.
Not many folks built sporters on Arisaka actions (I have a beautiful one in .308 Win) because it took more work than a Mauser 98 did to get the same level of results.
One thing to remember about milsurp Type 99s (7.7mm) is their stocks are multi-piece and glued together, and that glue is now pretty old. I've had a couple "come unglued" during firing. Usually its the forend.
No damage, just came apart. Not a big deal, just clean off the old glue remnants, and repair with a good carpenter's wood glue, clamping and allowing time for full curing.
FrankenMauser
New member
For ammo:
PPU is good.
Hornady is fine.
Norma is good.
S&B is fine.
Winchester Metrics is S&B.
PCI is dangerous.
Steinel is a newer player on the market, but seem to be putting together a decent product. I do know that they want to become a destination for high quality ammo - euro cartridges, in particular. They're even working up drawings to recreate the Mk 2 case head, so LE and SMLE shooters don't have to worry about rim jam with modern cases that have the wrong fillet (or none at all).
PPU is good.
Hornady is fine.
Norma is good.
S&B is fine.
Winchester Metrics is S&B.
PCI is dangerous.
Steinel is a newer player on the market, but seem to be putting together a decent product. I do know that they want to become a destination for high quality ammo - euro cartridges, in particular. They're even working up drawings to recreate the Mk 2 case head, so LE and SMLE shooters don't have to worry about rim jam with modern cases that have the wrong fillet (or none at all).
i load 8x57 brass for the 7.7x58, lube full lenth resize 8x57 in the 7.7 size die. case neck is a little short, but no problem. i load nothing balls to the wall and a 170-180 gr bullet at 2100-2200 fps will kill any animals here with ease with a proper shot. my two japanese rifles are both full military early nagola bring backs in ex condition. i have killed deer with them.
the bullet most easily found is the Hornady .312"
Depends upon your location, apparently ..... despite the fact that Hornady's plant is just a couple hours west on I-80, I have not seen these around here .... I have seen Sierra's .311 bullets in several weights 125gr to 180, both SP and HP Match, at a couple places locally. I run the 150's in My Russian guns.
I've already posted an image of a resized 30-06 USGI case with a cut, fireformed, and neck turned brass on another thread and can't post it in two places. The 7.7 chamber is wider. I've read that the 7.7 Arisaka prefers heavier bullets and from my tests, this appears to be true. Besides the 174 Hornady FMJBT bullet, another option could be the PRVI .311 174 and 180gr bullets sold by Graf and Sons for $15/50. These bullets are still in stock.
No, it does not. The Arisaka round is 7.7X58, 30-06 is 7.62X63, so almost a 1/4" difference in length.The Arisaka has enough slop to fire a 30/06
And stop giving bad and dangerous advice.
The Arisaka has enough slop to fire a 30/06
I have two 7.7mm Type 99s, and I can't get the bolts to shut on .30-06 brass (and I'm not going to beat on them to see if it can be forced)
Now, if you personally saw it done, then you saw it done, and I'm not going to dispute you. What I will say, however is that an individual rifle with enough "slop" to allow that is not a good representative of the entire production run.
If one does, but others won't, its not accurate to say the all do...
these kinds of barracks rumors never seem to go away, and once in a while there are actually examples where they are true, so they live on, and on.
In the days of the French & Indian wars, and the Revolution, the British Brown Bess (nominal .72 caliber) could shoot the french .69 caliber balls, but the reverse wasn't true. During WWII, the guys using 82mm mortars could fire the other side's 81mm ammo. But not the reverse.
The one I found most charming was about how the Japanese used "bamboo bullets" so the splinters would cause infection....
Wood bullet training rounds have existed. Swedes used them, so did the Dutch. Possibly the Japanese, I've seen Dutch and Swede ones. Never saw any Japanese ones but they might have existed. All the one's I've seen have been 6.5mm...
What makes me think is this.. The 8x57 case can be necked down so it can be chambered into a 7.7x58 case. That alone, you would think that you can pour the powder from the the 8x57 into the Arisaka case and you use. But, noooo, the load max of the T99 is less. What gives with that?
What gives with that?
What gives is the cartridge load specs, including pressures.
First point, the .30-06 is the 7.62x63mm The 7.7Jap is the 7.7x58mm so there;s 5mm (.20") difference in the case lengths, about a 1/4 inch (.25")
The 8mm Mauser is a higher pressure round than the 7.7mm. Despite the nearly identical case size.
When Japan transitioned to a modern society, they were very much influenced by things British. They drive on the same side of the road as the British. The Japanese Navy was patterned after the Royal Navy. The British influence was strong, right up to the eve of WWII and to a degree, even after.
Such is the case with the 7.7mm Japanese round. It is a ballistic copy of the .303 British. Same bullet, same speed, same pressures. Only in a different sized, rimless case.
The 7.7 Jap and the .303 British throw a 174gr bullet at about 2400fps max.
The 8mm Mauser throws a 170gr at 2700fps because it is loaded hotter.