Argh! Police and Coyotes!

[azredhawk44]

I've got a pack of Coyotes in north Scottsdale here, near the 101 and Cactus. My neighborhood has been here for about 25 years, it's not like it's a new neighborhood.

There's one particular chunk of land with a condemned house on it, inaccessible from the road... it has about 2-3 acres around it. What once was a nice little micro-ranch. Now, surrounded by little 60'x60' parcels of land, but the 2-3 acres there haven't been developed for some reason or other, and the house there is now shuttered up and ramshackle.

Coyotes have a little den back there.

Last week, 2 or 3 of them tried to snatch my neighbor's terrier right off the leash.

I just drove home and saw one freely walking the sidewalk. I chased it with my truck, and it felt SAFE running into an apartment and condo complex to evade me. They are completely de-sensitized to people and there are a lot of children in these apartments and condos. I routinely see 5-6 year old children running around and they are unsupervised for the most part. Yummy snacks.

I called the Scottsdale Police Department on the non-emergency number and got a lady on the line.

She didn't want to know where the animals were.

She didn't want my address or contact info.

She suggested I call Arizona Game and Fish Department, and prepared to hang up on me.

I told her I already HAD a hunting license, and that type of solution probably wouldn't be looked favorably upon by the Scottsdale PD.

She got very sharp with me.

"What exactly do you mean, sir?"

"Well, a basic hunting license allows me to shoot all the coyotes I want in the state of Arizona," I responded. "But obviously," I continued after a meaningful pause, "discharging a firearm within city limits is not allowed unless in defense of myself or others." :barf:

Sigh. She still doesn't care... All she wants to do is find some crazy guy to report to her shift supervisor... not actually protect the public. :barf:

So, I look up game and fish department. No number for stray predators, so I call "operation game thief" since all the other numbers are for 9-5 offices, and it's near 6 o'clock.

What is it with "enforcement first, protection later?" There's no focus any more on actually protecting the population... just want to boost those arrest and fine numbers. Argh.

The gal I got on Game and Fish was very attentive to the problem, in spite of the department she worked for. I do have to credit her for that. I told her about the 2 year history of these coyotes and how in the last week they have gotten very flagrant, and she said she probably wouldn't have an officer out there today, but probably by tomorrow. I gave contact info, offered to show the game warden or officer the den where the coyotes live, and thanked her for her attention.

So, I'll be open-carrying the 1911 on dog walks in a city of 200K people, in a metro center with 5+ million people, because Scottsdale PD won't do their job and come out and shoot some coyotes with the M4 poodleshooters they have in their cruisers.

Seriously, if any place were to be an in-city open-air rifle range, this abandoned ranch would be it. It's surrounded on 3 sides by concrete walls, has rolling berms all through it, and an abandoned house to also act as a bullet trap or backstop. Coyotes can't run much anywhere, and the bullets aren't going anywhere but into the dirt.

 

[tony pasley]

"I was walking my dog and this coyote came at me growling as if it were going to attack us officer"

 

[AZ Med18]

I recently talked to a police officer about this situation that was a buddy of mine. He said and this is dangerous.....to use my bow and arrow or my crossbow.

But make sure you can shoot those in the city limits.

Thats my only advice. Sorry I wish we could just .22 them all.

 

[Yellowfin]

Bow would definitely be the way to go there. If you put one in the boiler they won't be a problem. A good sized broadhead on them would put a hole equivalent to a dinner plate on a person.

 

[azredhawk44]

Sec. 19-7. Discharge of weapons.
(a) No person shall, within the city limits, fire or discharge any firearm, including but not limited to an air gun, BB gun, pellet gun, dart gun, gas operated gun or other similar gun or instrument. This section does not apply to the use of any such gun or instrument by:
(1) A law enforcement officer or other duly authorized public official or employee in the performance of any official duty.
(2) Licensed shooting galleries.
(3) Any person to whom a license, permit or authority is issued by the chief of police for the use of such gun or instrument for a valid and proper purpose and for use in a manner not likely to harm any person, animal or property.
(4) Any person when used only for the necessary protection of property, habitation, or person in a manner authorized by the laws of the state or under or within rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the state or of the United States.(b) Every person convicted of a violation of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall forfeit to the chief of police the gun or instrument so fired or discharged.
(c) Every officer upon making any arrest and taking weapons used in violation of this section shall deliver the same to the city judge to be held by him until the final determination of the prosecution for the offense. Upon a finding of guilty, the judge shall deliver the weapon forthwith to the chief of police who shall make disposition of the weapon in the manner prescribed by chapter 23, article III.

So, referring to AZ state law:

C. This section does not apply if the firearm is discharged:

4. For the control of nuisance wildlife by permit from the Arizona game and fish department or the United States fish and wildlife service.

5. By special permit of the chief of police of the municipality.

9. In self-defense or defense of another person against an animal attack if a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force against the animal is immediately necessary and reasonable under the circumstances to protect oneself or the other person.

So, if I get a nuisance wildlife permit from AZGF&D or the blessing of the local police chief, I can go coyote hunting.

Otherwise, it's gotta be "Coming right for me!" like for Jimbo on South Park.

 

[Master Blaster]

When seconds count the police are only minutes away....

After the Coyote seizes you neigbor's 4 yearold, call the police and they will have someone out to chalk an outline around the child's half eaten remains. Then they will call fish and game to take some action.

If you want to rid the neighborhood of the Coyotes, use a .22 rifle, aguilla ss should work, but will most likely wound the coyote but it will die eventually.

The SS is quiet out of a long barrel, but you will have to be stealthy.
Just make sure the neighbors dont see or hear you, because there is always an irrational animal rights activist in every neighborhood.

 

[xrocket]

Solution ....

.



I have a suggestion that might get some action by the authorities:

Contact the local newspaper, talk radio stations and TV stations and tell them who, what, when where and most importantly your "fears" for the children. Paint a vivid word picture to spark the media's interest and relate how city and state government is turning a blind eye to the "danger".

One or two stories in the news and ... bingo! The problem will get handled by authorities pronto.

You might be surprised just how fast the media will jump all over it.





Good luck.


.

 

[NavyLT]

Can you trap them in cages? Then call animal control or cart them outside city limits? Do you have a pick up or other open truck that you could put the trap in already staged so the hop up into the trap to get the tasty steak, trap shuts, you drive away to outside of town...

 

[zxcvbob]

For the control of nuisance wildlife by permit from the Arizona game and fish department or the United States fish and wildlife service

Didn't you say you have a hunting license already? Isn't that an applicable permit from the AG&F Dept?

 

[wpcexpert]

Just kill'em

If it were me, CC everything you can fit on your person. Walk up to the front door and kick it in. When they attack, shoot. Come up with whatever excuse you want to later. If they have made a hole in the place, even better. Put a board over the hole and weigh it down. They go and get some gas and dump it down the hole. If they come out, shoot them. If they stay, the suffocate and die anyway. Win, Win.

Thats what we do to get a skunk out of our coon traps. Throw a bucket of gas on the trap. The skunk passes out. We get it and kill it. Gas smell is easier to get off a cage than skunk.

 

[rburch]

I would avoid just killing them, at least not illegally. If you break a law you'll have police after you, if you do it killing a "Poor cute fuzzy Coyote" you'll have PETA after your head too, and I don't think they'll care if you did it to try and protect a person.

So basically unless the song dog is actually attacking someone, you can't kill them without a permit. A farmer here in Virginia was fined because he killed a bear out of season even though it was in his barn. They said because it hadn't actually attacked one of his animals yet...:barf:

I agree with the trapping idea if you can do it legally, but once you trap them give them to the local game and fish guys, you'll face cruelty to animal charges if you're not careful.

Now personally I'd choose to take long walks around the mentioned property while exercising my CCW rights.

I'd also take the story to the media, and the town/county council meetings. Raise as much fuss as you can. Then if you do wind up having to kill them you'll have a history of trying to do things the legal way.

Also call up the cops again, and mention lawsuits if someone is hurt or killed, it tends to help get past the red tape.

Keep calling the animal control guys too, maybe they'll actually do something right.

 

[Curtis(USAF)]

The city or county dogcatchers/pet shelter, (ASPCA? I don't know the official name they use nowadays) might have some resources. They usually have contacts in the private sector for dealing with dangerous domestic animals like fighting dogs and sick/injured animals. They'll probably want to trap and relocate the coyotes.

Fish and game strikes me as a mostly license and regulation enforcing agency. More concerned with people misbehaving in animal space rather then vice versa.

 

[Shorts]

I like xrocket's suggestion. Frantic save-the-children messages get listened to, especially if 'the city' is ignoring it. Heck, probably help the cause go faster if you just go door to door and ask if they'd make a little noise about it. After all, it was their dog and/or kid you saw the coyotes stalking, right?????

 

[Doyle]

I wish I were close enough to help. I would set up on a stand on that vacant land with my bow and a rabbit call. No noise for the neighbors to hear and no danger to anyone but the coyotes.

 

[HKuser]

Can't you try to make friends with the coyotes? How about bringing them a nice big bowl of sweet tasty ethylene glycol?

 

[Doyle]

Can you trap them in cages? Then call animal control or cart them outside city limits? Do you have a pick up or other open truck that you could put the trap in already staged so the hop up into the trap to get the tasty steak, trap shuts, you drive away to outside of town...

I would have expected better from a Navy LT - must be a brownshoe.

Coyotes are WAY too smart to be fooled by box type traps. The only trap that is effective is a very well laid leg-hold trap. Even those must be placed by someone who really knows what they are doing. Coyotes are some of the hardest furbearers to trap.

As to the relocation. Nope. That wouldn't work either. A coyote will naturally travel over an area of several square miles on his own. Relocating them anything less than about 30 miles wouldn't even slow them down. They would be back in their territory within days.

 

[armoredman]

I think I'd avoid that like the plague, deliberately setting out poison in places children live and play could backfire kinda hard.
Work with Game and Fish, local animal control, and the media of course, but carry, always carry, both firearm and pepper spray, which can be used well against animals with exposed mucous membranes, like coyotes. Get a nice big fogger to carry on your dog walks, avilable at local police supply houses. Always remember AZ law allows for self defense, even agoinst 100% protected species...

 

[NavyLT]

I would have expected better from a Navy LT - must be a brownshoe.

Dammit, you got me.

Coyotes are WAY too smart to be fooled by box type traps. The only trap that is effective is a very well laid leg-hold trap. Even those must be placed by someone who really knows what they are doing. Coyotes are some of the hardest furbearers to trap.

How am I supposed to know, ain't too many coyotes on ships . Yes, even brownshoes go on ships.... every now and then..... when we have to.

As to the relocation. Nope. That wouldn't work either.

Who said anything about relocation? It's just that it isn't illegal, in most cases, to discharge a firearm outside of city limits in a rural part of the county.

 

[azredhawk44]

Still no word from AZG&FD after reporting this issue.

I think I'll get a game camera and stick it on one of the runs on the property the Coyotes use, see if I can photograph the pack or the individual animals separately.

Then, take the pictures to the next city council meeting along with the abandoned house and surrounding properties.

I wish I took a pic of the Coyote walking the other day. I need to walk and drive around with a camera on me.

 

[HKuser]

I think I'd avoid that like the plague, deliberately setting out poison in places children live and play could backfire kinda hard.

Yeah, it's better the kids get eaten or shot. Children old enough to go onto an abandoned property with dangerous predators around and deliberately drink, and that's what it would take, from a bowl set on the ground would have to be stupid belong belief. How about when rat poison is set out in cities? Big cakes of it in containers in alleyways around DC where anything can get at it. They must grow 'em particularly dumb in AZ.