Are You Too Stupid ... for Concealed Carry?

[Amsdorf]

I wrote this essay the other day and thought I'd pass it along here for discussion. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Let’s face it, aside from owning the right gun and gear, not everyone is equipped to carry a concealed weapon. With the boom in firearm ownership in recent years, there are a lot of new gun owners. And plenty of first-timers seem to have picked up that first gun as an impulse buy, apparently thinking, “Hey, I’m going to buy me a gun and carry it!” Their friends pack heat so how hard can it really be, right? If you’re too stupid to think through some really important questions before you start carrying, you have no business walking around with a concealed weapon. You need to stop to consider that . . .

There are legal, ethical, moral and competency implications whenever you strap on a firearm. Here are just some of the things you need to be aware of:

Legal Implications

If you carry a gun, you need to be prepared to accept the legal consequences, whatever they may be. Are you willing to go through the trouble and expense – both financially and emotionally – of being arrested, charged and tried if you have to use your firearm? If not, leave the heater at home. Can you deal with whatever might come your way when it comes to encounters with law enforcement officials who may or may not understand and respect your state and local carry laws? If not, don’t carry.

Ethical Implications

When you take on the responsibility of being an armed citizen, you also assume a greater level of ethical responsibility for every aspect of your behavior while packing. You don’t pick fights. You don’t respond to aggressive comments or gestures by going for your gat. You never go looking for trouble. You don’t – ever – drink while armed. And you never brandish it or joke around about carrying concealed. Concealed means concealed…in every possible sense. If you can’t conceal it, do not tote it. You aren’t trying to impress anyone by carrying. Your ethical posture hasto be above reproach when carrying.

Moral Implications

Are you mentally prepared to actually shoot and kill somebody? If not, the gun should stay in your safe. If you think you are just going to pull the gun out and wave it around to scare somebody off, don’t carry. If you think you can “shoot to wound,” you have another thing coming.

If the gun comes out of its holster, you must already have decided to kill somebody. Period. There is no middle ground. Can you do that? Have you thought long and hard about what that means? Are you willing to see what a bullet will do to a human body? People don’t always just fall over dead like in the movies. You have to prepare yourself for the emotional trauma of gravely wounding or killing another human being.

Competency Implications

If you are going to carry a concealed weapon, you need to be rigorous about safe, competent gun handling. Your heater is always loaded – or it better be. That means you must never ever, under any circumstance, draw it while carrying unless you’re truly in a life or death situation.

You do not pull it out to show to your buddies. You never cover anyone with the muzzle. Your finger should be indexed. You simply do not “play around” with your concealed firearm. It goes in the holster and never comes out, unless absolutely necessary.

And you need to be fully trained in the use of your firearm. Find a competent instructor and take a class. Better yet, take several classes. Just as if you want to get to Carnegie hall, you need to practice, practice and practice some more. You owe it to yourself to get in as much range time with your carry gun as you possibly can. If you aren’t willing to master all aspects of handling your concealed carry firearm, don’t strap it on.

Are you too stupid to handle all of this? Most likely not. But these are just some of the things you will need to consider before you take on the responsibility of concealed carry. Yes, it’s your right, but you need to exercise that right legally, ethically, morally and competently or you’ll hurt the cause of those that do. Got it?

 

[youngunz4life]

thx for the original post

Legal Implications

If you carry a gun, you need to be prepared to accept the legal consequences, whatever they may be. Are you willing to go through the trouble and expense – both financially and emotionally – of being arrested, charged and tried if you have to use your firearm? If not, leave the heater at home.

yes because drawing the weapon is the last resort and/or a lifesaving situation in an emergency

Can you deal with whatever might come your way when it comes to encounters with law enforcement officials who may or may not understand and respect your state and local carry laws? If not, don’t carry.

yes, that isn't an issue I am worried about.

 

[Skadoosh]

If the gun comes out of its holster, you must already have decided to kill somebody. Period.

Ummm...I am not pulling my gun to kill. I am pulling my gun to stop the threat. Nothing more.

If pulling my gun causes the BG to run away, I have successfully stopped the threat. I am not going to still kill him/her. If my bullet hits him and doesnt kill him but instead causes him to stop threatening me... I have accomplished what I was intending. THIS is what I was intending.

However, if my bullet hits him and causes him to die, thats fine too.

The intent to stop the threat and the intent to kill are two distinctly different intentions. The difference can and likely will decide the outcome of the jury trial that follows.

 

[rgrundy]

The Constitution guarantees the same rights to "smart" trained people as it does to idiots. Setting standards for things that are purely subjective is dangerous (by my standards you may be judged incompetant). Yes it's dangerous living in an open society but it beats the slavery of total security provided by a benevolent dictator. I'll take my chances.

 

[Amsdorf]

Is there some reason we can't have an interesting/helpful/engaging conversation about these issues and these points?

 

[rgrundy]

Just my opinion. I realize it's not the norm these days. Times change.

 

[pgdion]

This is the reason I'm a big supporter of requiring training for carry. Nothing huge, just a basic introductory and awareness course so that even the lowest denominator has something under their belt (besides the gun). The training here takes about 4 hours of a Saturday morning. Just enough to cover the legal aspects, talk about safe ways to carry, talk about the consequences of carry (and how to deal with LEO), and execute a basic competency range test. Not much but it's easy and is way better than nothing. For some it may be mostly a waste of time but I believe that's a small price to pay to make sure the guy next to you at least knows something. I also believe that even if you're an expert, you can still get something out of someone else's class (especially from the questions that are asked).

And if you truly are an expert, then you can take the opportunity to give back a little by contributing some of your expertise (where appropriate ;-) ).

(btw - Aarond ... glad you asked first .... waiting for the reply)

 

[rgrundy]

I am constantly in the process of training new shooters (at least 5 times a month) and helping correct the "handicapped" that think they are safe and proficient. But we should in no way legislate any rights away. Right now their is a growing movement to regulate what we eat and drink because most of us are deemed too stupid to know how and are a burden on the health care sysytem. This is not the way to go.

 

[Spats McGee]

There are some excellent points in this article, but I cannot agree with all of them.

. . . .Let’s face it, aside from owning the right gun and gear, not everyone is equipped to carry a concealed weapon. . . . .

True.

. . . . You need to stop to consider that . . .

There are legal, ethical, moral and competency implications whenever you strap on a firearm . . . .

Absolutely! Unfortunately, some folks overlook these.

. . . .
Legal Implications

If you carry a gun, you need to be prepared to accept the legal consequences, whatever they may be. Are you willing to go through the trouble and expense – both financially and emotionally – of being arrested, charged and tried if you have to use your firearm? If not, leave the heater at home. Can you deal with whatever might come your way when it comes to encounters with law enforcement officials who may or may not understand and respect your state and local carry laws? If not, don’t carry. . . .

Excellent point. Everyone who considers carrying needs to consider the possible aftermath of an SD shooting. There are lots of variables, and even in a "gun friendly" jurisdiction, the legal consequences of an SD shooting, even a totally justified one, can be very expensive.

. . . .
Ethical Implications

When you take on the responsibility of being an armed citizen, you also assume a greater level of ethical responsibility for every aspect of your behavior while packing. You don’t pick fights. You don’t respond to aggressive comments or gestures by going for your gat. You never go looking for trouble. You don’t – ever – drink while armed. . . . Your ethical posture has to be above reproach when carrying. . . . .

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. This is one of the reasons that I'm fond of the phrase "An armed society is a polite society." If I'm going to carry concealed, I have to give up the luxury of responding to aggressive comments, insults, and folks who cut me off in traffic. I just can't afford any escalation on my part.

. . . .
Moral Implications

Are you mentally prepared to actually shoot and kill somebody? If not, the gun should stay in your safe. If you think you are just going to pull the gun out and wave it around to scare somebody off, don’t carry. If you think you can “shoot to wound,” you have another thing coming.

If the gun comes out of its holster, you must already have decided to kill somebody. Period. There is no middle ground. . . .

This is the one with which I disagree. If my gun clears its holster, I must have decided: (1) that there's a real threat to my life or that of my loved ones; and (2) that the aforementioned threat must be stopped. I accept the fact that an assailant's death is entirely possible, but I have not decided to kill somebody.

. . . .Competency Implications

If you are going to carry a concealed weapon, you need to be rigorous about safe, competent gun handling. Your heater is always loaded – or it better be. . . .

I would have put the "do not -- ever -- drink" section here, but that's a stylistic, not a substantive point.

 

[Wyoredman]

If you’re too stupid to think through some really important questions before you start carrying, you have no business walking around with a concealed weapon.

This statement nearly ended my trip to this thread! Seems pretty self righteous!

That being said, I forced myself to finish reading the essay. You have some very good points and I am glad I finished reading....Unitl I got to the bottom.

Are you too stupid to handle all of this?

I just hate being called stupid! Find a better word, please.

 

[rgrundy]

Yeah, stupid is too strong a word. It denegrates the other people and sets up a one sided dialogue where the little people need to listen. Encouraging people to take responsibilty and offering training is the only way to get where we need to be. Our club has beed overwelhmed by new shooters lately and it's a blessing that they are taking responsibilty.

 

[gunloony]

Concern over whether I am too stupid for concealed carry is one of the reasons I have made no effort to get a license. (Other reasons have to do with the amount of time my job requires me to spend in no-carry areas.)

Evan as a non-carrier though I have to take issue with this portion of the original post:

If the gun comes out of its holster, you must already have decided to kill somebody. Period. There is no middle ground.

Sorry, I cannot agree that the concept of defensive use of a firearm or self-defense in general encompasses a decision to kill another. The very concept of defense is to do what is necessary to stop a threat to ones own life or the life of another. If the act of drawing the gun ends the threat by causing the the threatener to surrender or flee, there is no need and no legal justification for killing. If firing a shot that misses ends the threat, there is no reason to kill. Not to put too fine a point on it, as I understand our legal system making a decision to kill another is to plan a murder. I fully agree that anyone who chooses to arm himself must be prepared to kill another human being, but that is not the same thing at all as planning - even in the act of drawing a gun - to kill. One should if necessary shoot to stop a threat, and shoot as many times as it takes and inflict as much injury up to and including death as it takes to stop the threat, but one should not determine before firing that one is going to kill.

OK, I may have just demonstrated that I am indeed too stupid for concealed carry, but I cannot agree with the OP about a decision to kill.

 

[Stressfire]

Is there some reason we can't have an interesting/helpful/engaging conversation about these issues and these points?

Yes - this is the Internet

No, actually, I agree with most of what you said. "Stupid" might be a poor word choice, however. I do think there are people who just aren't cut out for firearms ownership or carry - and for some, no amount of training will help.

Many others do subscribe to the "magic wand" theory of firearms, where the mere sight of it will send a BG fleeing in terror. A lot of times there simply is no reasoning with them.

It is part and parcel of being a free society, where the "stupid" have the same rights as everyone else.

 

[Skadoosh]

Is there some reason we can't have an interesting/helpful/engaging conversation about these issues and these points?

Well, so far, there are three of us who disagree with one of the most important of your talking points. Care to discuss how you came to the conclusion in question?

 

[Frank Ettin]

The Constitution guarantees the same rights to "smart" trained people as it does to idiots...

While we don't need (or shouldn't need) government telling us we must have training, the wise and responsible gun owner, especially one who plans to carry a loaded gun in public or keep a gun for self defense, will voluntarily get training to be safe, proficient and to understand his legal responsibilites.

It may be one's right not to get training. But if someone makes that choice, don't expect me to congratulate him for it.

John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” I think one might add "responsible."

 

[Amsdorf]

As for the word "stupid" ... that was not idea, my editor wanted to make it "snappier" hence the stupid preface and conclusion were actually written by him.

Not to worry, Frank:

I own this editorial and hold copyright to it, and rather than pulling a "drive by" post with just a link to where it first appeared, I posted the whole article and invited discussion.

 

[Amsdorf]

"Well, so far, there are three of us who disagree with one of the most important of your talking points. Care to discuss how you came to the conclusion in question?"

If you are referring to the "If you draw, you have decided to kill someone."

I can see how that comment has caused concern. What I'm trying to get at with that comment is the "mindset" issue. If you are unwilling/unable to use lethal force, you should not be carrying. Perhaps I should have added that very comment after the "kill someone" remark.

When we talk about "stopping a threat" we are talking about "stopping" a threat, not "scaring" a threat, "wounding" a threat, "slowing down" a threat, but actually stopping, and you can only definitively STOP a threat by putting bullets into vital organs and areas: heart, brain stem, brain, spine, etc.

That means, we shoot to kill, etc.

Apologies, if this is not the point you are referring to.

Does that help?

 

[Amsdorf]

OK, one more post before my lunch break is over.

I found this document very helpful in thinking through some of these issues:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

It is an FBI study on ballistics and wounding factors, etc.

It is a very large, steaming hot cup of reality.

For instance, here is why I say you must be prepared to kill. Of course, the more polite way of putting it is, "stop a threat" or "incapacitate" but here's the point in the document I found very interesting/helpful:

Physiologically, a determined adversary can be stopped reliably and immediately only by a shot that disrupts the brain or upper spinal cord. Failing a hit to the central nervous system, massive bleeding from holes in the heart or major blood vessels of the torso causing circulatory collapse is the only other way to force incapacitation upon an adversary, and this takes time. For example, there is sufficient oxygen within the brain to support full, voluntary action for 10-15 seconds after the heart has been destroyed. In fact, physiological factors may actually play a relatively minor role in achieving rapid incapacitation. Barring central nervous system hits, there is no physiological reason for an individual to be incapacitated by even a fatal wound, until blood loss is sufficient to drop blood pressure and/or the brain is deprived of oxygen. The effects of pain, which could contribute greatly to incapacitation, are commonly delayed in the aftermath of serious injury such as a gunshot wound. The body engages survival patterns, the well known "fight or flight" syndrome. Pain is irrelevant to survival and is commonly suppressed until some time later. In order to be a factor, pain must first be perceived, and second must cause an emotional response. In many individuals, pain is ignored even when perceived, or the response is anger and increased resistance, not surrender.

 

[Skadoosh]

That means, we shoot to kill, etc.

It does not. Because that is not my intention when I shoot in self defense. There is a distinction and you seem to be saying that there is not.

 

[xLPlushy]

If the gun comes out of its holster, you must already have decided to kill somebody. Period. There is no middle ground.

I also cannot agree here. This statement to me describes a form of premeditated murder. The way I was taught, you only do as much as necessary to stop the threat. If drawing your weapon sends the BG for the hills, then you have successfully stopped the threat and must report the incident to the police. If it requires firing your weapon once or multiple times to stop the threat, sadly that's what has to be done to preserve your or your loved one's lives. This a tough world we live in filled with gangs and individuals that will go to any length to get their next hit of dope or try to make a quick buck off of the seemingly innocent.

There are a lot of good points in this essay, though. I also agree "stupid" wasn't the correct word to use here, much too harsh.

I like the quote "An armed society is a polite society." Those of us who carry concealed take on a huge resposibility in the fact that we can deal death. I aim to avoid confrontation and escalation at all costs, I have never been an aggressive person. Using my firearm is a last resort. I would rather go to my OC spray than my firearm, OC is non-lethal, and in most cases it will stop the threat and disable the attacker long enough for other concerned citizens to come to my aid in calling for the police. I was taught to follow a use of force continuum when I worked with the security officers at an amusement park (I believe that this was a park mandated continuum and not state mandated), they were certified under PA's Act 235. Some of them were full time police officers working a security detail to make some extra money and to occupy some spare time. These gentleman have taught me a lot of the fundamentals of handgun shooting, and of what to, and not to do in an SD scenario. I still do talk to one of them on a regular basis.

As was brought up in post #9, I think training should be required for one to acquire a CCW permit. If at the least to briefly touch on firearm safety, state and local laws, legal implications, and the like. I feel it is a bit too easy here in PA to get a LTCF(License To Carry Firearms). In order for me to carry in some states that do not honor the PA LTCF, I am applying for my Utah non-resident CCW permit, for which a Fireatms Familiarity Class is required. I am very eager to take the class.

Just my $.02
Happy and Safe Shooting


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