Are you sure you want a flat tax?!

M

MoW

Moderator
Something to consider. Simplifying the tax code yes, flat tax I'm not so sure.

The wealthiest 1%, in 2003, earned 14% of the income and paid 35% of all individual income taxes.

By comparison, the bottom 60% of all taxpayers earn 28% of all income and pay just 1% of all individual income taxes.
 
I would like to see a fair tax and not one administered by a commission trying to interpret poorly written law. A flat tax is preferable to what we have now, but it wouldn't be my first choice to replace the IRS. The trick is to look at whether your lot in life would improve and quit falling for class warfare politics.
 
Bud,

A flat tax is preferable to what we have now, but it wouldn't be my first choice to replace the IRS. The trick is to look at whether your lot in life would improve and quit falling for class warfare politics
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Just curious, but how would a flat tax be preferable to what we have now based on the numbers presented? That 60% would pay significantly more and a greater %, while the 1% would pay WAY less.:confused:
 
MoW,
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Is it your intention that we should punish the rich for being rich, or that 'every man for himself' is a sound national policy?
 
Simply pointing out the TRUE numbers when it comes to paying income tax. People always scream that they are being taxed too much while the RICH get away with murder. What I'm saying is, if your in the lower 60%(as most people are) you might want to reconsider either wanting a flat tax or continueing to make statements that the rich don't pay enough income tax. OTOH, if you're rich I can see where you would welcome a flat tax.
 
Right...so you're advocating deciding on tax policy based on whether you're personally "rich".
Why isn't this class warfare again? :confused: I mean, why not just let the top 5% pay all the taxes if that's the case?
 
I'm not advocating anything. Just presented the facts and then you decide if it is best or not to have a flat tax. Pretty simple math though. If you are in the lower 60% and would like to have a flat tax, just realize that what you have been led to believe isn't always true. A flat tax seems(by the numbers) to show that it would end up with you paying more--not less. Since the bottom 60% will make up a much greater % of the voting poluation vs the top 1%--it is basically in their hands.
 
Although the estate tax only affects a very small percentage of our population, the estate tax is the most obscene tax assessed against Americans. Hopefully, the socialist Democrats won't prevail in their passion for wealth distribution.
 
MoW,
FWIW, I wasn't misled about this. The taxes are pretty close to flat as it is. I am well within the lowest 60% and support the flat tax because #1 it's arbitrarily fair and #2 it's simpler.
 
The trick is to look at whether your lot in life would improve and quit falling for class warfare politics.
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What I mean by that is your concern should be what the gubmint extorts from you, not what the gubmint does not extort from another. If the present popular philosophy of "tax the rich" continues, I need to determine at what point in my (assumed) salary climb I stop improving my lot in life and tell my employer I don't want any more raises because I have determined I am at the point of diminishing returns and I am no longer working for myself, but for some politicians' buy vote programs.

At some point my net gain per hour of effort diminishes, because I reach some popular definition of "rich". At that point, if I don't want to work mostly for the government, I need to abandon the work ethic I used for years to attain my present level of income because that defines me as an enemy of the people. ;)

For the record, I am in favor of abolishing the IRS. And to anwer the question put to me, a flat would be preferable because it would be more fair, not a progressive tax, which is a euphemism for a punishment tax on the higher income brackets. I support the Fair Tax (link in previous post).

Does anyone here know what percentage of those that are required to file Federal Income Tax returns are receiving an Earned Income Tax Credit?
 
GoSlash27,

The taxes are pretty close to flat as it is. I am well within the lowest 60% and support the flat tax because #1 it's arbitrarily fair and #2 it's simpler.
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Are you saying the "current" tax is flat as it is? The proposed flat tax would for example increase your taxes due by about 14% while lowering the 1% from 35% to 15%. I agree that it would be "fair" so to speak in that everyone gets the same tax rate and it would indeed be simpler. However, as I stated in the first post, simplifying the tax code should be done anyway, but taking the simpler route in this form would cost "you" and the 60% much more.
 
I'm kind of torn on this, as the flat tax is inherently more "fair" and would save me much.

However, we have to remember that wealth begets wealth. Fighting your way out of the lower or middle class is far more difficult than making a million bucks when you already have 10 million in capital. So there is little doubt that a flat tax would increase wealth disparity.

What we need to look at is taxes in general....we simply send too much of ALL our monies to Washington, only to have a fraction returned. The Constitutional Party is on the right track on this one. They call for a repeal of all Federal taxes; FedGov would then fund its (very limited) budget based on a levee of the States (by population), not the citizens. In this way, your Congress Critters would have an incentive to hold down Federal spending as each increase will result in a increase in your State imposed taxes....and they'd be held accountable for their otes come election time. They also allow for taxing of Corporations at the federal level....this, in itself, is a special tax on the "rich" and makes some sense.

If that were done, I don't think a flat tax would be difficult for anyone to accept. We'd at least have greater direct control over the spending....and we'd most likely ALL pay less in taxes.

One thing is for certain....estate taxes make a mockery of a Free Market. FedGov continues to take something like 40% of all wealth as a penalty for dying....the math tells us that it's only a matter of time before all lands will be owned by FedGov as a result.
Rich
 
Why have taxes at all? It's a darned poor government that can only fund itself by forcing individuals and companies to ante up, or else.
 
I would like to see a fair tax and not one administered by a commission trying to interpret poorly written law. A flat tax is preferable to what we have now, but it wouldn't be my first choice to replace the IRS. The trick is to look at whether your lot in life would improve and quit falling for class warfare politics.
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Yeah, I agree. A lot of people don't like the federal sales tax idea because they think they'll pay more on goods but the opposite is likely true when the embedded tax costs of goods disapear. And you won't be paying income tax at all. It's really an all around good idea, people are just afraid of it becaue it's such a departure from our current system.
 
Flat tax???

A flat tax wouldn't start until you have earned about $40,000 then the flat tax would be on the remainder!!!
Using this sort of set up would help a lot of the little folks get ahead and still make it "more" fair to the rest of the tax payers.
But what would be the reason that the GOVT. would want to do this ??? The bureaucrats seem to like the system the way it is!!! :mad:
When did the fat cats ever want to do anything that was an actual good thing for the working class??? :confused:
Unless we the "majority" start to vote these fat cats out of office and replace them with people that will do things better we are going to continue getting the "Shaft". And It doesn't make any difference if they are Dems or Repub's, neither party seems to have my best interests at heart!!!:(
 
flat tax

I'd prefer a flat tax to the complex system we have now. Just think how much easier it would be to fill out the forms. Reading the convoluted IRS instructions for depreciation of rental property (lucky I don't have any!) or filling out the back side of a schedule d or figuring the alternative minimum tax using the IRS form is a big pain. Obviously, I do my own taxes. Why should anyone have to pay a pro just to do one's taxes? It shouldn't be so hard. Plus, all the deductions and legal loopholes make it easy for the super rich to pay way lower taxes than they would with a flat tax that no amount of fenagling would eliminate.
 
budget based on a levee of the States (by population), not the citizens
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I'm not in either camp regarding a flat tax, yet. I'm still gathering information. The above idea is intriguing but I have a question. What would the federal government do if a State decided just not to pay its tax (levee)? (Kind of like the U.N.)

Dean
 
Hmm, the actual solution would be to stop fedgov from taxing the individual in any form, then we can deal with our individual states and localities the way it should be. Anything else is an abomination and a trap too many fall into debate over.
 
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