Are you responsible [Part 2b]

[Dr. Strangelove]

I voted for calling 911.

An interesting thing happened to me a few months ago...

I was walking out of a movie theater with my brother, it was the late movie, and the parking lot was not well lit.

As we walked down one of the aisles, someone of another race popped out behind a car and just started booking it right towards me. I thought, "Well, I guess this is really happening. I hope I can stop this guy, and that my brother can get some hard licks in on him."

The guy ran on by me, as I walked on I saw/heard his three friends talking about how he had forgotten his cell phone in the theater.

How many folks here might have drawn on this guy?
If you had, how about the three friends?

Something to think about, not everything is as it seems... really changed my perception of things.

 

[animal]

GoldenState, gee, a lot of that was pretty much common sense and illustrative of what you value. Family is #1, pretty much the same here

It sounds bad, but I might pass on stepping in to protect a kid that many others (maybe you) would try to protect. The kid might represent greater innocence, and thus "greater gain" if the gamble is successful, but to me that’s mostly just another unknown. My focus is weighing the dangers against my abilities rather than a greater imagined payoff. If I don’t think there’s a high likelihood of winning, I don’t take the gamble, no matter how innocent the "victim" appears. While I might risk all on a bet, it’s only when I consider the bet safe (protecting family and friends excepted, of course). The main concern is determining what’s a safe bet and when it’s best to consider the victim "already lost" … and leave it to the comic book heroes to act based on what they think they might gain, imo.

Vigilantism is an entirely different thing. That’s more like hunting, and the cops have the only hunting licenses. You can lawfully deter nuisances and remove threatening animals without a license, including helping out a neighbor.

 

[Big Tom]

Dr. Strangelove,

Ya some people are just dumb as a mule. Being in customer service for 6 years I can tell you that I am no longer astonished by the idiots of the world. I have seen, studied, watched others and can not believe how dumb they are. I seen so many dummies from Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, and Asians, you name it I seen it. I've seen people with Government checks telling them EXACTLY WHAT TO GET in plain writing and STILL are dumb founded.

An example of this is:

A woman has a Wic check, IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS to buy a certain type of item and they go and pick up something completely different. Then they look at you and say, "oh I didn't know that." OMG IT SAYS IT ON THE CHECK WHAT YOU GET! When you first sign up for them they tell you what you can and cant get and you even get a list of stuff to remind you. NOT ONLY THAT but everything WIC Approved is STAMPED! Then they say "oh thats not fair." ITS FREE! WHATS NOT FAIR? THAT YOUR SAPPING THE LIFE OUTTA MY PAYCHECKS FOR FREE STUFF? I could go on but thats one of the examples that gets me most.

It holds up all the poor folks trying to get home to the kids, make dinner for the family, during rush hour and they get held up for the idiots. Then I feel all bad about it after even thou I know its not my fault in the first place. Stupidity really gets under my skin and gets me all worked up.

Animal,

I was unclear on what you were getting at in the last post please go on...

 

[m&p45acp10+1]

Sometimes what seems so obvious is not what we thought it was.
When I was in my early teens I was in the truck with my uncle, and my cousin. We were on our way home from hunting turkey, with shotguns in the truck. This was a year or two before concealed carry became legal in Texas.
We hear a woman sceaming for help. We see what appears to be two gang bangers man handeling her. She was struggling, and screaming for help, with a few get your hands off of me, let me go in there also.
My uncle grabbed a shotgun stepped out of the truck. Racked the slide loudly. Yell at the guys let her go. A split second later there are cops everywhere. We are surrounded at gunpoint by cops. Turns out those gangbagers were actualy under cover police. The woman was being arrested for selling them narcotics. My uncle was taken to jail. My cousin, and I had to wait for my aunt to come pick us up.
Charges gainst my uncle were dropped the next day, after our family attorney showed up at the DA's office explaining what was going on.
What may appear to be so obvious, might not be what you thought it was.

 

[Big Tom]

YIKES!

 

[Evan Thomas]

Charges gainst my uncle were dropped the next day, after our family attorney showed up at the DA's office explaining what was going on.
What may appear to be so obvious, might not be what you thought it was.

Yikes, indeed. That situation could easily have ended in a far worse way than with your uncle's arrest, and it makes the point rather well. Thanks for telling it.

 

[TheGoldenState]

and leave it to the comic book heroes to act based on what they think they might gain, imo.

Have you not read the new copy right laws? That is my protected phrase fooool. lol (;

anyways, commmon sense aint so common, and my point was for the majority i could give two ____'s about what happens to someone else, because i wont let it jeopardize me, because i owe me to my family. there are exceptions to everything and for me the kid me raped is just that.

 

[animal]

so sue me. Hey, I either twisted or redefined it too … maybe you can ask for punitive damages if you can prove malice.

We just take our exceptions differently : for me, it’s when I’m confident I can win. "Might be able" to win doesn’t cut it.
Yeah, I’d want to help the kid being raped more than an adult being beaten, but the desire to help only causes me to consider taking action. Whether I actually take action depends entirely on the chance of success.(What’s happening to the other guy becomes irrelevant if I don’t think I can help.)
Dunno which is best. My method has the potential to do more things. Focusing on the severity of the crime has the potential to do greater things.

No kiddin on "uncommon sense" (TM?) … careful there, you don’t want a suit filed against ya. lol

 

[Old Wanderer]

While my nature is to jump in, I learned a hard lesson when I was working in Colombia back in the 70's. I walked out into a parking lot one hot afternoon, and a guy had a woman by the throat, and shoved against a car, just beating the hell out of her face.

I spun him around (he only came up to my chin) and started to re-arrange some of his face asking him how he like this? BANG and a shot went by my head. This woman laying on the ground who could hardly see out of her bloodied eyes, had a gun in her hand saying "leave my husband alone".

I spun him around and used him as a shield then threw him on top of her...

(And I thought I was being the good guy).

 

[Tom Servo]

Several years ago, I was walking to my car in a gas-station parking lot. Two pumps over from my car was a newish Mustang with a teenage girl in it. A young man came running across the parking lot, banged on her window and yelled, "gimme the car $#*!"

Oh my gosh! Do I blade 45 degrees and draw from retention?!? Is this "my time?!?" Imma be a hero!

No.

Two seconds later, the occupant of the car said, "shut up, Barry," and they both laughed.

So why didn't I immediately pole-vault to the top of the force continuum? Observation.

• There were other, unoccupied cars nearby he could have taken. One was an Escapade with the doors unlocked and engine running.
• The guy didn't hit the window hard enough to break it.
• This was a crowded, well-lit parking lot with plenty of potential witnesses.

A co-worker was with me and asked me why I didn't go into fight mode, and I explained this. I explained that my life would have taken a drastically unpleasant turn had I shot the guy, and his response was that a jury would have presumed my actions to be based on reasonable concern for the girl's safety given the circumstances.

He didn't realize it, but that was an incredibly callous view of things. We're talking about taking human life. I own every bullet I shoot, and I have to live with my actions. I can't imagine how I'd have felt if I acted wrongly in a case like that.

I'm not directing this at anyone here. In fact, I haven't caught a whiff of it in this thread, but I've seen and heard far too many conversations the last couple of years that revolve around "can I shoot in this situation?" "Well, how about this one?" "Hey, what if the guy does this?"

It's incumbent for us not to look for confrontation, and to avoid it if at all possible. While I may have to act in defense of another at some point, I won't know until the situation presents itself, and I likely won't be leading with the gun.

Stuff like this is hard to predict and impossible to prejudge.

 

[briandg]

I would step in with whatever it took, at whatever risk to myself, when I am satisfied that it is what I have to do. It is, in my mind, a human duty.

OTOH, my daughter is vaguely nuts. At one point, she had a meltdown, and went running away from me into town after school. I tried to get her into the car, I was dragging her forcibly across the parking lot of a church.

A person interceded on her behalf. she hollered rape. I had to throw my wallet at him, told him to call my wife, and shut the hell up.

I know as well as anyone that things aren't always what they seem.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If you were African-American (note to all, this is based on empirical scientific research and not race baiting), there would be a higher probability that a Caucasian observer might misperceive your wallet as a gun and take it from there.

This research is based on the follow up of the Diallo case and is very solid. Talk about race in a bad way at your peril.

Interesting nuance to think about.

 

[Tom Servo]

If you were African-American, there would be a higher probability that a Caucasian observer might misperceive your wallet as a gun and take it from there.

Actually, in the case I was describing, the "perpetrator" was African-American and the "victim" was white. The guy was dressed in urban chic (not gangster, but baggy pants and prominent chain), and I remember thinking that many bystanders might have jumped to conclusions earlier as a result of that.

It stinks that it's that way. It really does, but the guy gave the appearance of intending harm to bystanders, and I hate to think of what might have happened if his prank was misinterpreted.

 

[Wildalaska]

I would step in with whatever it took, at whatever risk to myself, when I am satisfied that it is what I have to do. It is, in my mind, a human duty.

Yet that human duty could have cost you YOUR life if the guy chose not to beleive your wallet.

WildafterallitshisdutytoorightAlaska ™©2002-2010

 

[Stevie-Ray]

there are exceptions to everything and for me the kid me raped is just that.

I admit, I'm tired, but I've read that sentence 3 times or more and I think it needs changing.

 

[animal]

IMHO, a lot of mistakes (most?) can be avoided by learning to control your own fear … so you can accept the things you observe for what they actually are, instead of acting on what you’re afraid they might be.
I concede that it is almost always easier said than done, and that over-confidence is just as bad as cowardice from the standpoint of achieving the desired result. If you’re acting out of emotionalism (to advance, retreat, or stand ground); you’ve already lost the first part of the battle imo, and fallen into an extremely high-risk category. Don’t let emotions get in the way of thinking, is mostly what I’m trying to say.