Are you a gun owner and vote for Democrats?

Okay, so we want a simpler answer? I vote Democrat mostly because I think the Republican party has largely been hijacked by religious interests, and though I may be a Christian I feel my my religion has no more place in our government than anybody else's. I don't like the government legislating morality, particularly Christian morality, and that seems to be a lot of what the Republican party stands for right now.

Beyond that there's the idea that my fourth, fifth, sixth, and eight amendment rights have been decimated in the name of the War on Drugs, the War on Terrorism, the War on Overdue Library Books, and the War on Christmas. Well, maybe not that last one. No, the Democrats aren't perfect on those issues either...but they're a damn sight better than the Republicans.

Of course, the choice is made a little easier nowadays, since I live in a place (Montana) where even the Democratic candidates aren't generally virulently anti-gun.

In other words, I don't value gun rights over any of the others. It's not at the "top" of any list of mine. Faced with two candidates who are otherwise roughly equal, I'll go with the pro-gun candidate. But that's never the choice we're given. So I find that more often than not I agree more with the overall positions (and even the voting records) of the Democratic candidate than the Republican. Hence that's who I vote for.

EDIT: Also, before anybody carts out the whole "the second amendment protects all the others" argument (which may be true to some extent), I'll point out what a lot of other anti-gun folks have pointed out to me (and I agree with): a majority of the people who argue this point, and who insist everybody vote on guns alone, are the exact same people who want to see the church more involved in the state and don't mind the idea of giving up a few of those other less significant rights in the name of fighting the Ay-rabs. In other words, the second amendment only protects the others if the people exercising it aren't the ones actively destroying the others.
 
=Marko Kloos]How about all the Constitutionally enumerated rights that have taken it in the pants under Republican stewardship since 2001? Like the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments, among others?
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I keep hearing this. I've even stated it since I despise the Patriot Act and have about as much use for GWB as I do for foot fungus. But I am always countered with two things: 1) Where are all the examples as opposed to the "might happens". 2) In any discussion of conservatism why would anyone bring up Bush and Co as examples thereof?

I never said anything about abortion or homosexual rights, but since you mention it, I feel compelled to point out the flaw in your particular perspective...
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So, the BoR limits government power and thus government creating special status for certain minorities, or allowing certain acts via court decree, is protected by the BoR...

Yeah, alrighty then.
 
On the subject of the Second Amendment alone, I'll say this- I am far beyond the point of voting a straight ticket, and thinking I have done all I can to support it. I will consider candidates from any party, but I'll dedcide based on their voting record instead of what they say. I do evaluate issues beyond 2A when making that decison, and yes I have voted for Democrats on occasion. I do wish the party would field strong 2A candidates with a voting record to back up their sales pitch.

Competition is a good thing.
 
2) In any discussion of conservatism why would anyone bring up Bush and Co as examples thereof?
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Only he didn't say conservatives, he said Republicans.

So, the BoR limits government power and thus government creating special status for certain minorities,
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Same as always, it's not about creating SPECIAL status for certain minorities, it's about treating the minorities EQUALLY. Being allowed to do the same things as the majority - marry, adopt children, bequeath retirement benefits - is not asking for special treatment, it's asking for EQUAL treatment. As for allowing certain acts via court decree, I'm not a fan of the courts making the laws but I'm also not a fan of the law controlling the bodies of individuals.

Since these are taboo subjects on this board I'm happy to discuss it further through PM (unless of course we already have and couldn't come to an agreement :p I forgot). :)
 
In any discussion of conservatism why would anyone bring up Bush and Co as examples thereof?
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Bush fits in very well with the "kook fringe right" don't you think? He's surrounded himself with them.
 
Was once a straight pull Demo voter. One day I awoke with my eyes and ears wide open, took note of the deterioration of the life and freedom and
became an Independent. Locals? I might vote for a good man for these home County Offices regardless of political party.

I never send a Democrat to Austin, our Capitol, or Washington, DC. They all appear to be tainted with the likes of Kennedy, Klinton, Schumer, Pelosi and on and on, seems that taint spread like the 1918 flu epidemic.

You may note that I haven't wasted any praise in the GOP? They are just a
lot less dangerous to gun ownership among other things.
 
Voting for ANY Demonrat is a vote for Nancy Pelosi, Henry Waxman, Harry Reid, et.al. It has been years since I voted for anyone, and I am sick and tired of voting against the lying tapeworn I despise more than the other lying tapeworm. The Demonrats vs. the Republicans is the Evil Party vs the Stupid Party. I hate them all.
 
Don;

Regarding Harry Reid, we go back a long time together, probably in our early 30s. Harry is a man of considerable substance and is not as "Mad dog" anti-gun as some other Dems. The Republican who ran against him was less than stellar. I disagree with Reid sometime but I also agree with him on other important points. I agree with him on Iraq, I disagree on rural water issues, we agree on abortions.

Harry has worked hard for our State for many years and I respect him for that. Not that I always liked everything he did but more the fact that he is no Namby Pamby. I speak to him face to face several times a year, try that with the likes of some of our other Senators.

As I said previously, until the Republicans can field a better candidate, I'll support Reid. Our other Senator, Ensign (R), is a first class jerk and I didn't vote for him. I voted for Jack Carter (Jimmys Son) whom I met along with his Dad last Summer.

I will say this, I go the extra mile to meet all the candidates running in the State (the ones who will appear on my ballot). Those candidates who will not give me an audience get scratched on my ballot.

I did vote R for our Congressman, Dean Heller, a darn fine young lad.

Hope that answers your questions.

Bill
 
"You may note that I haven't wasted any praise in the GOP? They are just a lot less dangerous to gun ownership among other things."
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cuate: Amen to that!
Wild Horse/Bill: thank you for that excellent response! That's what I was looking for. You're not a knee-jerk "D", unlike so many people I've encountered. While I may not agree with your politics, I'm glad you've joined TFL.
Don
 
How about all the Constitutionally enumerated rights that have taken it in the pants under Republican stewardship since 2001? Like the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments, among others?
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Maybe, just maybe, I m not keeping up with the news.

Any examples of those violated rights?
 
Maybe, just maybe, I m not keeping up with the news.
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Maybe you aren't.

I don't have the time to play Google monkey for you, 209. If you cannot do a search for "Patriot Act abuse", or "NSA wiretapping", or "War on Terror civil rights violations", "War on Drugs civil rights violations", or "asset forfeiture abuse" and come up with plenty of examples, then you're wearing a very efficient set of blinders.

Heck, just read the L&P archive for the last five years.
 
Cradle to the grave Democrat here. Who do I vote for? The guy (and maybe a gal this time) who can BS me into a decision that I will probably regret sometime down the road...I really dislike all politicians, but that does not keep me from exercising my voting rights. There just has never been anything inspirational since JFK and Clinton. My dos centavos.
 
I am a gun owner who votes for some democrats. Sometimes the democratic candidate is the best one. For that to happen, he usually has to be on the right side of most civil rights issues for me, including the 2nd amendment. Of course, sometimes the position doesn't entail any authority with respect to firearms. Sometimes he might even be anti-gun, but only if his opposition is worse. You do know that there are anti-gun republicans out there, right?
 
I'm not particularly thrilled with either party. I am very much concerned, however, that, should the dems take the white house and hold congress in '08, the AWB will be right back, worse than ever, just for starters.
 
I'm not particularly thrilled with either party. I am very much concerned, however, that, should the dems take the white house and hold congress in '08, the AWB will be right back, worse than ever, just for starters.
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Agreed, Mike- and AWB will just be the tip of the iceberg. The only reason they are counseling restraint right now, is that they don't want to alienate potential 2A voters before the '08 elections. If they get congress and the white house, it'll be seen as a mandate and you better hold onto your shorts. Regardless of what they say, the libs harbor a lot of animosity toward gun owners in general, over the 12-year 'timeout' we gave them between '94 and '06. We won't ever make them respect us, and they have no desire to understand us- or what we stand for. The best we can do is make damn sure they fear us as a voting block, and the best way to do that is to vote antigun candidates out of office at every election. We'd do well to put aside our petty differences and vote with solidarity- but the past election (and some others I have seen, like '96) tell me that's not likely. This makes it all the more important to keep your state politicos towing the line for gun rights.
 
These arguments are usually worthless.

The reason is that the staunch only the 2nd Amend. counts group is usually quite happy with the infringements of liberty and threats to democracy that come from the right.

That's all there is to this debate. As long as some folks can have guns, they would violate all the other amendments.

The 2nd Amend. was not crucial in getting rid of segregation, getting women the right to vote or reasonable control over their reproductive rights. The 2nd Amend. didn't act against discrimination in hiring based on race, national origin or religion. However and unfortunately, many of the social conservative gun owners were quite OK with those infringements on liberty and freedom. We still see it on these lists.

I would not vote for a totalitarian, authoritarian threat to democracy on the gun rights issue.
 
Harry Reid?

What does Harry Reid have to do with Nevada gun laws?

I'll give you a hint, nothing!

However, he would be a good person to seek out advice on land speculation.
 
I've voted for a dem when the rep candidate was too far to the right. I support stem cell reasearch. I have a hard time supporting the far christian right that wants to take away everyones right to do anything they deem immoral. There are other issuses, but I won't get into them.
 
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