Are we too security conscious?

T

The Tourist

Moderator
I have recently become fully retired. I work when the mood hits me. And switching to this status, it dawned on me that I hadn't volunteered in a while--quite a while.

I called over to the vets' hospital in Madison, Wisconsin and spoke to Scott, the director of Volunteer Services. Great guy, truly dedicated. If you live in the Madison area, I encourage you to call Scott and set up an appointment.

And that's the thrust of this thread--the appointment.

Due to new security parameters (and I read that as "Homeland Security" parameters) I couldn't just pick up where I left off.

I held a top position there. I shagged files, pushed wheelchairs and worked in the kitchen. You know, top flight "James Bond" stuff.

I was asked to bring in my old credentials, which were confiscated in a heartbeat. They called me 'sir,' however I noticed Scott showed up from two floors away as there was an unknown biker in the building.

I was fingerprinted. The bureaucrat said he never saw anyone get printed with a zero re-do. I laughed and told him to contact Madison PD. I'm an "expert" there, as well.

Then I got interviewed, new pictures were required and a full blown investigation will be required over the next two weeks. I cannot volunteer until that's over, hence the confiscation of my former valid credentials.

Now, I get it. Any idiot can walk into the hospital, which is in fact a federal building. The police office is located where the old volunteer office was located, right by a major front door. The guys are armed and a real-deal squad car sits right outside.

I'm a big boy, any embarrasment is worth the prize.

However, what if you were a concerned little old lady who never had a brush with the law? What if you and your Kiwanis Club just wanted a nice summer project? What if your spiritual side convicted you to help our returning Iraqi War veterans?

Would this procedure chill any feelings you had to volunteer?

I cannot even park in the lot until I receive my sticker, which I will get only when my credentials have been verfied.

When so much is needed it seems that altruism is being trampled by rampant security paranoia. How do you feel?

(I'd like to see some of you there. I still remember where almost everything is, and I can walk you through orientation. It would be nice to have an extra set of hands in sharpening a few dozen knives in the kitchen. Please volunteer.)
 
I agree, it seems a bit over-exhorborant. I do, however, have to applaud their attempt to protect their injured and mamed soldiers, returning from the battlefield of Iraq that they sent out there on false pretenses, unsure goals and failed policies. PFFT.

The proverbial Red-Tape is becoming truth in today's world. This is even in the case of the private sector. Contracts, privacy statements and confidentiality agreements are the norm in today's business world. Getting a job entails a background check, credit check and multiple interviews. Peeing into cups, taking blood to test for STD's, electronic access, photo recognition and video surveillance at the door are all becoming standard in today's world. I don't work in some government-contracted company either. I work for a construction design firm. Concrete...WHOO!! Yea, there is a field that is on the "to-do" list of every thief, copywrite and intellectual rights offender out there, right?? hah

I am 27, and have heard stories of the good-ole days in this country where people were generally righteous, kind, giving, and honorable. A world where a friend would throw himself in front of a train to save you. I wish I lived back then. I feel alien in this world we call America, today.

It seems our society has become paranoid in and of itself. We can trust no one. We can count on no one. We believe there is someone out to get us at every turn. Relationships are all but disposable. It is a sad state of affairs.

Getting to know people on a personal, friendly level is done. It is all for one and one for none. Companies don't trust their employees, employees distrust their employers. No one is willing to get to know anyone. Companies enact more surveillance on their employees than on the clients.

When interviewing, the people stare at the chart, at your file and your application while you answer their questions. They never look into your eyes. It is disheartening.

I am not saying these things are or aren't necessary or justified. But, I believe it has become a very sorry society and much different than the stories I have heard and wished I could live through.

All I can do is live by my honor, go on by my beliefs and try to live outside of that norm. We need more people like the older folks. I am ashamed to be a member of my generation that is paranoia and "me" in its fullest.

God Help Us.
 
Hmmm. A biker that has a fascination with the efficient and proficient sharpening of knives... Yep, I think that I would have to background check you.:eek: :D

We are getting a little too sensitive these days about security to say the least. Maybe if we were a more social and less paranoid society this wouldn't be happening. People should have more interaction in their neighborhoods and places of employ, as well as the police and services should get to know the communities instead of making judgements based in theory of what other folks are or are not.

Being one of those "bikers" I get frightened, weird, or condescending looks and prejudgements as to my disposition all the time. Let's look beyond the cover of the books and those that are the books, let's not be so closed. When we can understand each other better we have less to fear and will also feel less insecure about each-other.
 
Slugthrower said:
A biker that has a fascination with the efficient and proficient sharpening of knives...one of those "bikers" I get frightened, weird, or condescending looks and prejudgements.
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Yeah, I thought about that, and I tell the story to evoke some laughs for the fun of reading this.

In truth, I already had credentials. I was known by the director. I had already been in the kitchen servicing their knives.

I think my only crime was the lapse in dates of service. Even that struck me odd. There are Vietnam era vets who have volunteered since the end of the war.

And the great irony here is that the vets' hospital encourages the adjudicated guilty to apply and work off their required hours of community service.

Laughs aside, I think this procedure will discourage people.
 
Yep, I think we are getting too security conscious.
As well as losing sight of who the real enemy is.
Hint, it ain't 99% of the American people.
 
I am not sure whether it is paronia or CYA. With some of the lawsuits it is a wonder that anything get done now. The state of SC is being sued right now because a woman was using a state owned cell phone in her personal car and had an accident. The basis of the laswsuit is that the state does not have a policy on phone usage, not that the phone really had anything to do with the accident or the fact that the woman was in her personal car and not on state business. Now the state has to develop a written detailed policy on cell phone usage. They may get hundreds of volunteers a year in but let one incident happen and everyone pays.
 
TheBluesMan said:
Does this have anything to do with Legal or Political issues?

Giving it a chance...
Click to expand...

I believe this topic is valid, although it might be in the wrong section of the forum.

I believe that the war, the opinion of the war and the pending election has caused some very unhealthy shifts in this country. Now, you never think of something as innocent as "volunteering" as being a political football.

And certainly, I never felt volunteering was a conservative or leftist issue.

For all I know, the biggest socialist in Madison could be sitting next to me in the escort area. In fact, seeing that this is Madison, Wisconsin, it's a pretty good chance.

More to the point of the debate, is the sector of volunteer service a place where politics should be a factor? During my first spate of volunteering in that hospital they told me that my service was for the vets, period. If I couldn't or wouldn't be able to carry myself with that level of professionalism I should leave the hospital and come back only if I could contain myself.

Now, we debate the issues of Homeland Security, the election, The Patriot Act and the Iraq War and everyone immediately focuses on modern life in America. That's not my specialty or my expertise.

I first walked the halls of that hospital in 1987 and I wish the atmosphere was the same now.

TheBluesMan, today I put my hand into a fingerprint machine. I believe this is an important aspect of our poltical debates. I would ask for your help and understanding here.
 
Absolutely. It's ridiculous, the government is strip searching little old ladies at the airport and meanwhile the borders are completely unsecured.

We're also forgetting that we need to be security conscious about government. Government has killed an exponentially higher number of people than terrorists have, and yet we seem to have no problem giving all this power to government to protect us from terrorists.

I'm not saying terrorism isn't a problem, but it is blown way out of proportion. We need to focus on the bigger picture.
 
Nope - not really.

"Fear" has become the buzz-word of the new millennium.

"We" are being scared into:
- no smoking
- no firearms
- zero tolerance
- low cal/low cholesterol
- child safety apparatus
- drug *wars*
- "officer safety"
- loss of human dignity for the "common good" (I'm a rather unabashed character myself, but even I feel uncomfortable and "not right" at having to disrobe partially in public to clear a security checkpoint).
- - and a host of other things too numerous to list.

The message is fairly clear - "comply or die".

This absolutely has a proper place in legal/political. - as it's in it's beginning stages,which are quickly spiraling out of control. More and more the "big brother" mentality of the .gov is supplanting individual responsibility & the ability for us to fend for ourselves.

The collective "man" has a need to "walk through the valley of the shadow of death", and overcome the fear of "evil" by their own hand. If and when spiritual guidance or help is needed, it must come from a "power greater than man".

A .gov should never be,,at least not as envisioned by the founding fathers - a "power greater than man". The .gov should be here to serve, not be the source of well being and comfort/safety.

This is not the first time in our country's history we've faced "terror". This is not the first time in our country's history that an opposing force has sought to destroy our nation.

This is the first time however that "we the people" have failed to stand on our own two feet and sought out the "protection" of the .gov.

I'm sorry to have the attitude "I'm glad I'm old and going to die soon". It saddens me because I'd rather go that way than to watch the continued decay of our country from the inside out.
 
Absolutely. It's ridiculous, the government is strip searching little old ladies at the airport and meanwhile the borders are completely unsecured.
Click to expand...

Yes Sir you said the magic words, we allow more or less open borders/ports,
very little incoming cargo checked and yet we feel the need to search
old people and babies getting on an airplane. :barf:
 
We're not too security-conscious, we're just too politically correct.

Basic police work:

While it's true that not all Muslims are terrorists, almost all the people trying to hurt us are young Muslim men.

But we can't profile. Heaven forbid.
 
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We like to equate security as freedom...

"We the Sheelple do hearby declare that we will trade our liberty for security, and any other handouts from the government possible as long as we don't have to work for it."

Sad to say America is now just a faded dream that looks good on paper, and day by day it decays into a nanny/police state. Give it a few more years we'll be like Britain.


Epyon
 
gotta love the new security protocals everywhere we go....

for example, I have been on a local college campus for 7 years. They have just requred us to have full background checks to ensure that we are ' not a threat to the campus community "

The real funny part is that I am a martial arts teacher for the campus....my hands and feet are lethal and I am teaching students how to be better fighters/ martial artists and learn effective self defense and combat techniques...

Irony anyone?
 
Epyon said:
Give it a few more years we'll be like Britain.
Click to expand...

No question about it, that's why I began this thread. (I did intend to use a bit more humor, but I believe we are correct on nanny vs. silliness.)

But now the important part, how do we fix this?

The vets' hospital is a good place. Despite all of the horror stories you might have heard about similar places, this facility is first rate. They probably have the best run, stocked and cutting edge heart surgery/ICU in the nation. They are constantly fixing and repairing the infrastructure. Their entire fifth floor serves eye and dental needs.

If veteran service is your goal, this is the place.

That said, they don't need me. They didn't call me. They run just fine without me. (I'm not even sure they want me.)

If I want to be part of this system (and I do) I shut my fracken mouth and put my hand on the fingerprint machine.

My political position here for debate is when does something good, like volunteering, get trumped by security? And as I have stated, this is a federal facility.

Take this concept to the extreme. A young boy loves his country and seeks service in our Armed Forces. Granted, he will need to be checked out physically, mentally and probably for criminal behavior.

But when does our quest for security throw a wet blanket on his enthusiasm? When does he tell his buddies about being treated like the very people he seeks from which to protect us?

I had credentials and a service record (of volunteering only, I never was a soldier) and I was known personally by the director. While the hoops don't bother me, I can see where someone might be embarrassed. And that's my point.

I believe some people just don't want to participate and the vets lose.

(BTW, don't let this hoopla stop you. Please join me.)
 
Policies and arguments against against profiling are simply a way for the government to then make an excuse to watch and monitor each and every one of us. Big lists, cameras everywhere, etc...Do you think they DIDN'T mean for this to go this way? Our government wants to keep us under wraps while they do whatever they want. Any assembly in the streets then can be immediately responded to with tear gas and fire hoses.
 
CrazyIvan007 said:
immediately responded to with tear gas and fire hoses.
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I'm not disagreeing. I find it odd (and counterproductive) to scare off the very people that you want.

It's kinder, more patriotic folks that even bother to apply. Granted, they do encourage folks working off community service hours to volunteer. But those people have already been through the legal system and we know exactly who they are. They may even be wearing a GPS ankle bracelet.

As many of you know, the US government locked up American citizens of Japanese ancestory during portions of WWII. During my initial volunteer service at the hospital, I met an older Japanese woman--one of the children locked up in one of these interment camps.

She held no animosity, she loved the vets and gladly volunteered her time.

Is this the kind of little old lady you want treated like a petty criminal?
 
Is this the kind of little old lady you want treated like a petty criminal?
Click to expand...

No, but I don't want my little old white honkey lady grandmother to be treated like a terrorist at the airport either. Profiling is used, but it is not in the books. It is inherent in an investigation of crimes.

When I witnessed a purse thief on the commuter train, I told the transit Police at the next station and the guy goes: "Was he black?" He was, but I didn't say anything until he asked. I said: "He was about 16-18, 120-130 lbs, 5'-7"..." and the guy cut me off and asked if the perp was black.

I just think it is stupid to write policies that interrupt an inherently good way of classifying a certain type of perpetrator.

The same could be said for a lot of racially charged hate crimes in the South. They should be looking for white folks...

Give credit where credit is due. If terrorists in today's world are generally Arabic men between the ages of 16 and 35...then they should be handled differently than an Arabic man in his 70's, or a white 15 year old or a hispanic 30 year old.

To investigate others and otherwise is just a waste of time, resources and money.
 
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