Are we getting our monies worth?

Repeatedly causing a small controlled explosion 2 foot from the face...>

...is probably worth a decent amount to ensure that it is contained properly each and every time.

That's what we're doing with handguns. We don't do this of our own choice with any other items I can think of apart from firearms.
 
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Prices are set, in a free economy, by what the market will bear. That is all. As long as people will pay $500 for a Glock, they will sell for that even if they cost .001 to make.

It isn't just lawyers and insurance that drive consumer cost; it's what people will pay. A gun, especially a handgun is something people usuLly feel quite personal about; they enjoy it in a deeper way than a power washer and it is an item which they identify with the preservation of their life. It is an invalid comparison. Also, the idea than one has more or less value is predicated on what an individuals needs are. Personally, I shoot at least once a month; often more when I can afford it. I power wash my house and garage once a year, and I rent the washer from a local hardware store for $15. Owning a power washer would be nonsense for me; $500 for something I use once a year and it takes up all that space? I shoot my pistol all the time, dry fire it even more often, and talk about it here daily ;) it brings me great enjoyment and entertainment.

And it's not a glock BTW :)
 
Dashunde you're excluding that even though the initial costs may be higher, that's not what solely determines price or value. It's not just lawyers and insurance(companies like Honda have plenty of that too).

While at the wholesale level the profit margins may or may not be higher for guns. Beyond manufacturing costs(which I strongly suspect aren't as widely different as perceived for the previously stated reasons), there's the entire consumer side of things, they can't sell a product for more than its worth, or its value, to consumers, as much as we all like guns, they are not a necessity.

In essence, just because one assembled and final product utilizes fewer materials and the development cost is lower, does not mean that one can categorically state that the end product should cost less than another assembled and final product, especially when one of those products is assembled from non-specialized sub-products.
 
I think that, in reality, $500 for an unfired and brand new pistol is not expensive. While not everyone can afford that, there are several other firearm options for far below that asking price. If you have to resort to complaining about the price of a Glock (and I'm NOT saying you were!) then you should bite your lip and deal with the horrible looks and reliability of something like a Hi Point. Of course, nobody really wants to do that, but you'll still moan about the price. Some of us are forgetting that this is a tool that can be used to PROTECT YOUR LIFE. These are some of the same people that have no qualms with buying a gaming console or new tablet for whatever the retailers are asking for (which is, to me, usually way too much). While the price on Glocks brand new might seem a little high for something with very few features (you shouldn't discount the nice triggers and light-weight polymer, though) you can always find someone getting rid of a used one for $300-400 which is a heck of a deal. I wouldn't pay $500 for a Glock because I know I don't have to. There are one of the most common handguns to be found anywhere. Anyone on Armslist trying to sell theirs for $700 is only kidding themselves. You can, in most circumstances, pay what you want. Research research research!
 
I will gladly pay the money for a firearm over a power washer or air compressor because I bet I'd look a might funny trying to stop an intruder with a mild sudsing or by torqueing his nuts with an impact wrench.
 
Having re-read responses, including my own, I think I may have addressed the OP's question incorrectly.

I'd like to paraphrase it first and the OP can confirm I have understood it as intended or not.

I think the issue is not so much the cost, but the engineering. Is the engineering, design, quality of workmanship (albeit from a production line) that goes into a firearm comparable to that which goes into other similarly priced mechanical appliances from different sectors.

If indeed this is the crux of the question, then I would say probably not when considering the €500-700 mark, but the price set is a result of much more than the sum of the parts.
 
^ Correct, you got it, on both points.
The precision, parts count, and labor that goes into making a pistol is far less than other machines similarly priced.

And your right, the price of a gun covers more than just the sum of its parts.
 
Any time I get something I want, for a price I'm willing to pay, I got my moneys worth. It doesn't matter if it's a piece of penny candy or a million dollar mansion.
 
The precision, parts count, and labor that goes into making a pistol is far less than other machines similarly priced.
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Glock shares their production and labor costs w/you or are you just pulling some figures out of thin air?

I'd like to see some hard links to both production and labor costs for each of the items you claim to have knowledge of.
 
Dashunde - if you think they are drowning in money, then go forth and build the better proverbial mousetrap and the masses will beat a path to your door. Build a Glock clone and sell it for the price of a high point and retire early!
 
I'd like to see some hard links to both production and labor costs for each of the items you claim to have knowledge of.
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You don’t need any special talent to observe that the requirements to produce a Glock with 34 parts, many of them stamped or injection molded, falls far short of the requirements to produce an entire Honda small engine and a 3200 psi power washer pump. (Glock and pressure washer sell for about $550 each)
The notion that the gun even begins to approach the complexities and expenses of the Honda and pump production is completely absurd.

if you think they are drowning in money...
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Last I checked Gaston was a billionaire, maybe not drowning in money, but he's sure swimming in it...
 
Look at it this way. You can buy the Glock, shoot the crap out of it for 5 years, carry it everyday, shoot 100 rounds a week, drop it on the concrete every now and again and still turn around and sell it for $475 - $500.

Try that with a pressure washer you use daily. . .It will be worth like $2 in 5 years of daily use.

What was that you were explaining again about how well pressure washers are made, their complexity, quality, something. . .I think I missed the point.
 
You don’t need any special talent to observe that the requirements to produce a Glock with 34 parts, many of them stamped or injection molded, falls far short of the requirements to produce an entire Honda small engine and a 3200 psi power washer pump. (Glock and pressure washer sell for about $550 each)
The notion that the gun even begins to approach the complexities and expenses of the Honda and pump production is completely absurd.
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But you keep missing the point that initial expense and complexity does not necessarily equal high cost relative to another product. You're picking one small part of a host of economic factors and declaring the rest invalid without any evidence that they are or at least reasoning based in basic economic theory. Your argument boils down to "well it has fewer parts that are less complex and fewer materials so it should cost less." Which completely ignores the realities of manufacturing economics. Number of parts and complexity are not the sole factors in determining manufacturing cost and subsequently pricing.

You even touched on a important factor of volume but discounted a crucial consideration, sure people might own multiple guns and only 1 power washer, but that power washer can be sold virtually unfettered around the globe, with replacement parts to go with it for maintenance, the same cannot be said for guns. I also refer you back to my previous statement, virtually every part of a gun is unique to either that gun or that line of guns, a few springs and screws aside they have no other application, whereas bits of a power washer are quite the opposite.
From Honda's product page for the engine in your power washer.
Common Applications

Pressure washers
Commercial lawn and garden equipment
Tillers / cultivators
Generators
Construction / industrial equipment
Agricultural equipment
Small vehicles
Water pumps
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Some of those are entire categories of products...

You're also completely discounting half of the equation, maybe you personally question the value, but you, the individual, don't matter when a company prices a product. The value or "money's worth" is determined by the fact that they continue to sell a non-essential good for X price among a variety of competitors some more expensive some less. Clearly enough people think they're getting their monies worth to support the price.
 
if you insist on buying a gun with a particular logo then no.

saa in 1880 cost you a whole months pay. still costs a whole months pay to buy on new off the shelf. yet the manufacturing process has been cut down to 30 minutes or so er gun without finishng and assembly
 
$475 to $500 for a beat up Glock you say?

Obviously you missed the point... all of them.
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What is value?
Google says,
val·ue
ˈvalyo͞o/Submit
noun
1.
the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.
"your support is of great value"
synonyms: worth, usefulness, advantage, benefit, gain, profit, good, help, merit, helpfulness, avail; More
the material or monetary worth of something.
"prints seldom rise in value"
synonyms: price, cost, worth; More
the worth of something compared to the price paid or asked for it.
"at $12.50 the book is a good value"
2.
a person's principles or standards of behavior; one's judgment of what is important in life.
"they internalize their parents' rules and values"
synonyms: principles, ethics, moral code, morals, standards, code of behavior
"society's values are passed on to us as children"
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Adding my own feelings about value, I would say value is the amount of "usefulness" I receive per $ of cost.

So, with my pressure washer I get to clean my house, mower, driveway, garbage can, and on low pressure a buggy motorcycle. I do this about 4 times a year. I suspect my pressure washer will last until I die at this rate. So, the cost is $550.

My Glock 21, I bought at it's half life as a Police return. I paid less than my min price, but after cleaning it up, it is great, except I will need a new tritium vial in the front sight this year. So, tritium vial should be like $50. I can use this gun every week for shooting, if I can afford the ammo. I can use it for HD everyday 24/7. But in the end, I'm getting daily use with about $0 ownership cost. I say $0 because I can sell it for $475 - $500 most likely.

Now, if you want to talk about cost of manufacture, the start up costs on the pressure washer are likely higher . . . .but this is not value unless you buy things because they are hard to make. . .Do you drive a Volvo perhaps?
 
Sigcurious... some really good points, several of them.
Your right, that engine and others like it, despite the parts count and complexity are put to use in every imaginable way and probably sold by the millions around the globe. Things can get pretty cheap that way.

I'd still contend that Gaston becoming a billionaire off of one simple product line within 20 years would give us some idea of the markup on these things despite the taxes, insurance, lawyers, import/export burdens they carry.
But who knows...

Hal... I'm not making a "claim", just throwing out a subject for discussion and offering up a perspective.
I'm not trying to prove anything or win anything, and this is not a court.
Personally, I'm fairly sick of reading the endemic and routinely argumentative demands for unobtainable proof of something spread across so many threads and ordinary benign conversations in this forum.
Its a tiresome habit that should be reserved for more important conversations, this not being one of them.
 
I am sure if power washers had a federal excise tax, and were only available from dealers with the proper credentials, had to contain silly state mandated things like a water in system indicator (equivalent to a loaded chamber indicator), had to spend earnings to fight off frivolous lawsuits from cities that claim power washer manufacturers marketed their products to criminals, had to jump through regulatory hoops for the Bureau of Chainsaws, Power Washers, And Lawnmowers...I'm sure their price would double.

As far as are we getting our moneys worth? If the market didn't think so, those guns would be on dealers shelves for eternity.
 
My guess... we're not really getting our monies worth from firearms, but I'll bet the insurance companies and lawyers are.
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Most quality firearms are a pretty incredible deal, IMO.

A Glock, for example, is probably good for at least a couple hundred thousand rounds with only very minor repairs (spring replacements). If you call the lifetime 200k, then even if you average firing 200 rounds per hour at the range you're still looking at 1000 hours of range time - 42 days nonstop. Also assuming that you're firing 9mm at $.25 per round, then your $550 Glock will go through 50 grand worth of ammo in its lifetime!

Of course the average person probably isn't going to go through 200k rounds in a single gun in their lifetime, but most guns should easily last long enough to be passed down to children or grandchildren.

It's hard to think of any other common items that really provide that level of value.
 
I think it’s more of the buyer’s perceived notion of value vs price.
If all you want is a tool that works well and is reliable and cheep then the Hi-point is for you. But you never see people getting excited over a Hi-point at gun shows or hearing people say “Wow look at that Hi point!”.
Comparing compressors to guns is like comparing apples to refrigerators.
A finely crafted, balanced piece of machinery that Engineers spent countless hours and perhaps millions of dollars designing.
What do you think is costs to design, test and setup production for a new gun. The fact that a barrel taping machine can cost more than a house and how many do you need to keep up with demands?
I’ve worked in engineering my whole life. What do you think it cost on average to change 1 wire on an aircraft? I’m not talking about fixing one wire. I am talking about changing the design of an aircrafts wiring on the production floor. Just one wire.
On average a one with 6 zeroes following. This includes design, testing, document changes and government approval and testing then implementation. To me a million designing a new gun is peanuts.
Personally I think we are getting our money’s worth out of Glock. 580$ for a Glock 34 last month is well worth the money I spent. Then again I wouldn’t give 10$ for a hi point but that’s just me.
 
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