are there any sensible gun regulations you would support?

[Odd]

Boy, are you guys in trouble.

Am I glad I live in a country without the 2a.

I think the intent of the founding fathers of America was a society where the common man could make morally just decisions without the need of law. The safety of society ultimately comes from the people and the weakest link is the individual. Therefore capable and self-reliant individuals could create a stronger society than weak minded individuals lead/protected by a strong central government: Locke vs Hobbes.

At any rate, a government that recognizes civilian firearms ownership as a right serves/belongs to the people and vice-versa. The gun represents power, so in the end it comes down to how much power the civilians possess.

 

[motorhead0922]

And this surely is the biggest fail in this discussion.

"The majority has no right...."

Wrong. The majority has every right to tell you all these things.
The majority elect your lawmakers who get there mandate how to do things.

DGS, this is precisely why we have our Bill of Rights: to keep the majority from trampling the rights of the minority. What about those in the Netherlands who want/need to carry a weapon for protection? Their voices have been drowned out. You (both singular and plural) don't know who is being stalked or threatened.

You allow government agents to freely enter your house and search? And you are happy about it? Unbelievable. This is why we have a right which prevents such unreasonable searches.

Yours is a sad, sad situation, and you don't even seem to know it.

 

[MLeake]

I can't tell if dutchgunsmoke is serious, or going for irony. Similarly, I can't tell if he is trying to prompt us to get more politically active to defend 2A, or if he really does not get 2A.

This makes it hard to respond.

In any case, he is right that contacting elected officials, preferably in tandem with large blocs of voters who contact them, is more effective than online hand wringing.

I suspect he is not saying he likes majority/mob rule, but that we ultimately need to find ways to sway a majority in the long term. If so, he is also right.

But again, I can't be sure of his intent.

Edit: One of my best friends is Dutch. He resides in the US because he is very unhappy with what the majority voted into power in the Netherlands. Gun laws, price controls, and the works.

 

[Al Norris]

Wrong. The majority has every right to tell you all these things.
The majority elect your lawmakers who get there mandate how to do things.

Sorry dutch.

While the majority has a right to their beliefs, they don't have the ultimate right to force their beliefs upon the minority.

We are not a democracy, despite how many use that term to describe this nation. We are a Constitutional Republic. Do we have democratic processes? Yes. But at the core of our governing system, is our Constitution. To change the fundamental way we govern ourselves, that document must be changed, through the amendment process.

It is that very process which protects the minority from rule or oppression by the majority. Two-thirds of both houses of the Congress must agree to an amendment, or two-thirds of the States must call for a convention to amend the constitution. In either case, it then requires three-fourths of the States to agree to make any amendment lawful.

That is a rather hard super-majority one must have to make such a change.

Democracy, on the other hand, is nothing more than mob-rule. Our founders saw and detested such a governing system. Hence our Constitutional Republic.

With stupid alternatives portra[yed] by your NRA you will loose this war on guns.

To counter the violence of evil men, one must needs use violence in return. Kill or be killed is still the law of nature and men are still creatures of nature. We all wish it were not necessary. But you simply cannot pat evil on the back and expect that evil to turn to good.

Such evil must be removed from society. Whether that is through the use of arms of the people or the use of arms of the state, it must be done.

 

[Ben Towe]

The once free people of the United States of America have been disarmed. The last line of defense between a free people and a tyrannical government has been removed. The government is now free to take whatever it wants.

Do you really think for even a brief second, that government is going to stop with taking from it's own? It a world of dwindling natural resources, a corrupt United States, free to pillage the world, is an unimaginable horror.

That's a terrifying thought, and one I have never really had until now... Imagine an Adolf Hitler with the all might of the United States in his hands. Chilling.

As far as the Dutch point of view: I have come to the conclusion that most Europeans don't really understand our Constitution, even if they read it and comprehend the words. I don't know exactly why but I equate it with the man who does a long stretch in the penitentiary, is released, and violates his parole right away just to get back in. He's been inside so long that freedom is frightening. Europe has been ruled with an iron fist for so long it's all they know. First by the Romans and then by their own kings, nearly 2,000 years, all told, they've been suppressed and told what was best for them, and anything more is frightening. Sad, really, and why we broke away to begin with.

 

[Spats McGee]

Having spent ~2.5 years in Germany over the last 25 years, including two stays of a year or longer each, I have some understanding of the European way of thinking. I wouldn't say that Europe is ruled "with an iron fist," as Ben Towe puts it, but there is (IMHO) a much stronger leaning towards collectivist thinking. In Germany, the perspective on the law is often "if it isn't expressly allowed, it's prohibited." By comparison, we Americans often approach it from the other side, "if it isn't expressly prohibited, it's allowed." The Germans have traditionally paid much higher income taxes, but those taxes paid for a much more extensive social net than we have in America.

dutchgunsmoke -- The body of the US Constitution contains the Articles, which are the grants of power to our federal government. The first 10 Amendments to our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, contains limitations on those grants. These are in place for the precise purpose of preventing the majority from overrunning the minority. One of the interesting things about Rights is that they're not always subject to popular vote.

 

[wayneinFL]

And this surely is the biggest fail in this discussion.

"The majority has no right...."

Wrong. The majority has every right to tell you all these things.
The majority elect your lawmakers who get there mandate how to do things.

In your narrow mind you only can be truly free when you belong to a majority.
So I suggest you get that majority involved. With stupid alternatives portrait by your NRA you will loose this war on guns.

We once had a majority that agreed slavery was legal. Fortunately, we are not a democracy, but a constitutional republic, and the Bill of Rights was extended to that minority that was previously subjugated by the majority. Protected in our constitution by the 14th Amendment.

Pure democracy would be no better than mob rule.

 

[Tom Servo]

The drafters of our Constitution understood a concept known as the tyranny of the majority. Consider Alexander Hamilton's words in Federalist #10:

Complaints are everywhere heard from our most considerate and virtuous citizens, equally the friends of public and private faith, and of public and personal liberty, that our Governments are too unstable; that the public good is disregarded in the conflicts of rival parties; and that measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice, and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority.

John Adams also wrote about it in A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America. Our system of separation of powers and the Bill of Rights are inspired largely by the desire to avoid the tyranny a majority can inflict upon a minority.

 

[armoredman]

dutch, I feel really sorry for you, with mere privileges, not rights..
Man, am I glad I live in a country with a 2A. We haven't been invaded and conquered by anyone yet.

Wrong. The majority has every right to tell you all these things.

Well, I was going to expound on this, but a number of people already had, so I'll just say, no, you are wrong, sir, sorry.


.