Are pistol grip shotguns really that terrible?

Old Bill Dibble I have tried PGOs and they pretty much suck for most uses. The only place I find them of any use is in very tight quarters for up close increased fire power over a pistol. They don't hurt my wrist but accuracy is abysmal past ten yards. They are also slower to operate than a full stock model.
jaguarxk120 Old Bill, I just do not see your reasoning.

You have a 8 shot corn shucker, OK it will throw a lot of lead, but after those 8 shots you are still facing a 16 shot 9mm and the BG has a extra magazine!
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Wait.......how do you know what "BG" Old Bill Dibble is facing?:rolleyes:
How do you know the BG is armed with a 16 shot 9mm? Has a extra mag?

What if the BG is armed with a Hi Point C9...one of the most common firearms recovered by police? (It's an eight shot pistol;))

And most importantly, how do you know OBD isn't packing a sidearm as well?
 
I can assure you I absolutely would be packing a pistol. It is tough to beat a shotgun for an opening salvo though. Everyone tends to notice it right away too. when people see a cop running down the street they may not get out of the way. They see a cop running down the street with a shotgun and the calculus changes a bit.

I don't own a PGO, have not since 1996. For work I have an SBS 870. I'd 1000X rather have that than a PGO. Part of the problem is that I have a very minor disability that prevents me from fully extending my arms. I can still shoot 100s at the range in any weapon I am assigned or have but certain weapons (such as a PGO) are tougher to operate so I avoid them.

Practically every handgun I have ever recovered from a criminal has been junk. Many were not operational most only had two or three rounds in them. Still enough to kill you. I think the nicest gun I ever recovered on the street was a Glock 19. It was fully loaded and the guy had whole extra box of ammo (but no mag).

I don't work in a big city. I imagine people working in the big cities see much nicer hardware regularly.
 
The only reason to use a PGO, in my opinion, is that a short barreled PGO shotgun is super easy to carry it on the back of your armor loaded with breaching rounds.

We sometimes did that whilst deployed but more often than not carried a Mossberg M-590 with breaching rounds, bean bags, and plenty of buckshot.
 
I've done a lot of shooting with PGO shotguns, mainly a Mossberg 500. Tried several different pistol grips...OEM, Choate, Pachmayr rubber. Finally arrived at the Birdshead grip, which is a whole 'nother ball game, and very usable.
Out to 25yds, I have no problem putting a slug or load of buckshot on a torso target.
In fact, my pal also had a PGO Mossberg, and we used to have 25yd shooting matches...Great fun!
I got a lot of flak here and on THR for saying I liked them. For a long time, my Mossberg 500 was set up that way.
Last year, still going for shortest legal barrel + overall length, I tried a 12" LOP Hogue stock, and found it fits my needs very well...that's how my shotgun sits right now.
Funny, the "experts" at THR still disagree...12" is too short, it needs to fit you, they say.
Well, I'm about 6" and have no problem running it at CQB distances, and 25yds is a breeze.
I will add that when I was shooting it PGO, all I shot was full power buck and slug. I believe the low recoil loads available now would make it even easier to shoot.
The PGO takes some technique, but it is doable, especially at HD distances.
 
The good news is I found out today a co-worker owns one so I can try before I buy.

If I like it then I'll have to go down the 500 vs 870 path :p
 
Use a firm, forward pushing grip on the pump, and a firm pull grip on the pistol grip. I hold at kind of a low shoulder position so I can see above the barrel, and it is safely away from the body. Aim low at longer distances...I would aim at the belt at 25yds and hit the chest.

I read a book recently by Patches Watson, the famous Vietnam era SEAL. He could have used anything on his ambushes and raids...Stoner, CAR-15, Swedish K...
But his favorite was an Ithaca Model 37 with the Buttstock cut off to make a PGO, loaded with #4 buck.
 
From my research (Google) there seem to be very few people that actually like pistol grip shotguns. I am talking no stock just the pistol grip.

I understand not wanting to shoot heavier loads out of it but I am looking at some combo kits that come with an interchangeable stock and pistol grip. I think the options are pretty cool and versatile but there seem to be a lot of folks out there against it.

Any experiences good or bad?
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Some experience. Bad.

The recoil is annoying, but the *real* issue with PGO shotguns is the extreme difficulty in hitting anything past a few yards, and (given the likelihood of a miss) the inability to make a rapid correction and followup shot.

Because of the recoil, you can't use sights very well (putting a 12-gauge PGO in front of your face at eye level is a good way to lose some teeth), and because you don't have the third point of contact that a shoulder stock would deliver, it's a lot harder to point with than a stocked shotgun is, even at close range.

In my opinion, if you want a gun that would be fun to shoot at the range and that could double as an effective home-defense gun, get a stocked shotgun with an 18.5" barrel. If you absolutely have to have the short overall length of a PGO shotgun (such as if you are looking for a firearm to store in a locker on your boat, or whatever) then I'd consider a quality folding stock. But PGO's are very, very hard to use effectively at any distance, and if you put in the hours of practice to be able to wield one even semi-effectively, you'd still not be nearly as good as if you were using a stocked shotgun.
 
terrible

Pistol grip ONLY? Yeah, a bad idea....TV/Hollywood stuff. A folder allows simpler storage, but the advantages of a full size stock. About the only legit use for a PG only might be for a shotgun that was dedicated ONLY to breaching, but I will admit I know very little about that business.

I have read somewhere that some shotguns deployed to the Middle East were PG's only, dedicated to breaching.....in fact there was no combat/projectile ammo available for them. No source, that from memory.
 
Get a PGO shotgun and a shot timer and compare times through even a simple course and you'll see the folly of PGO;)
 
The only advantage to PGO is being able to store in a smaller bag/case/hiding space. It is a big disadvantage when shooting. If you go for a PG with a over fold or side fold stock, you get the best of both worlds.
 
It's mostly the lack of control that matters. If you can shoot a shotgun from the hip(also lacks control) without hurting yourself, you can shoot one with a pistol grip.
A birds head grip for a shotgun you'd have to make. And bring to 'Show and Tell'. snicker.
 
For those of you who missed it the 1st time, Hickok45 has no problem hitting a distant gong with a PGO shotgun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUHAEvbf_I4
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Those plates are pretty close (7-10 yards, looks like), and he has more shotgunning experience in his pinkie finger than most people have in total.

Compare that video of hickok45 shooting the PGO shotgun to how quickly and effortlessly he hits with stocked shotguns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaa6wsw7Ts&t=13m46s

No matter how experienced someone is, they will always be faster and much more precise with a stocked shotgun than with a PGO, if they put the same amount of training and practice into both, especially on moving targets or under stress. (If you don't believe me, shoot some clays or a round of skeet with a PGO...some people can do it, but they can do it better with a stock.)
 
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No matter how experienced someone is, they will always be faster and much more precise with a stocked shotgun than with a PGO, if they put the same amount of training and practice into both, especially on moving targets or under stress. (If you don't believe me, shoot some clays or a round of skeet with a PGO...some people can do it, but they can do it better with a stock.)



Yeah, I realize all that, as most here do.

From my previous post, #15: I much prefer a tradionally stocked gun. A PGO gun could, potentially, fill a narrow niche for some people. But versatile they are not.

That said, if you actually watch the video, you'll realize that I was talking about the gong in the far back of his range (@7:44), which Hickok45 rings several times in a row. He reinforces my own experience with a PGO shotgun...which is consistently hitting with slugs at a distance that may be surprising to the inexperienced is not particularly difficult with some skills and a little practice. (I've found the same to be true, BTW, of snub-nosed revolvers...which Hickok has also demonstrated). But I do have a luxury most don't: I'm very fortunate in that I have access to a range anytime I'm so inclined since we have a nice one on our place about 200 yards out my back door.
 
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