Are +p And+p+ Ammo Worth It

If you insist on practice with the load you use for sd/hd, no. (imo) Use an affordable load to practice with, and keep it in your gun. This way you won't be surprised by an unexpected ball of fire (from your little used +p+ load) in the middle of the night in your bedroom. For 9mm, I keep a JHP load very similar in recoil and point of aim to the ball ammo that I practice with. Better to hit with a slower, smaller bullet, than to miss with the screamer.

Your income will determine "affordable".
 
My view is that if you think you need a +p+ loading in any gun you are using,that you should really consider moving to a stronger caliber in the guns you are using.
Click to expand...

There ya go, that's my answer right there. Why buy a 9mm because the ammo is "cheap" and then pay out the backside for +p? Now you've got ammo that costs more than other calibers, negates any perceived advantage of reduced recoil, is more difficult to find and is harder on the gun. Or.... you could just buy a 357sig and be done with it. There's always a cartridge that can be loaded to standard levels and do the job of +p "lesser" cartridges.

Unless somebody shoots a 10mm +p+, then you might be hard to beat.:eek:
 
you could just buy a 357sig and be done with it. There's always a cartridge that can be loaded to standard levels and do the job of +p "lesser" cartridges
Click to expand...

peetzakiller: is the 357 sig a worthwhile caliber in your opinion? I have never fired one but my "gun-nut" buddies all love to trash it, not that they're big fans of the .40 either.

sorry for quasi-hijacking.
 
peetzakiller: is the 357 sig a worthwhile caliber in your opinion?
Click to expand...

IMO? Yes but that's the opinion of a guy with only one handgun and it happens to be 357sig (Glock 33). I did a lot of research before choosing it and I like to think I made a well informed, logical decision. This whole "ammo cost" vs "power" vs this "+p+" business was part of the reasoning. I have no regrets. That said, there are guys on here with far more experience than I who could give you better opinions.

For instance +p+ Buffalo Bore 9mm is STILL less powerful than a standard 357sig loading and it's GOT to be hell on most guns. Not to mention that it's a buck a round while CCI Gold Dot 357sig is like 40 cents.
 
9mm is a good-enough cartridge and the +P loading are an option for many guns - not all. I if you want more power .38 Super, 9x23 and .357 Sig are the way to go.

Speaking of the .38 Super: It is basically a hot .38 ACP+P. The early Colts that the .38 ACP was chambered in can not take the abuse of a more powerful round so they changed the name - the super was developed for the much stronger 1911 platform. Modern cartridges are marked .38 Super+P and are somewhat underloaded (Cor-bon is the exception) in deference to these older pistols. The Super .38 also runs about 2,000 psi less than an equivalent 9mm+P with 15grs more bullet.

To be fair... I have my biases.

xse-rh-0105009-a.jpg
 
My car gun, a Taurus 85, is loaded with +p ... my carry guns use standard pressure rounds; from what I've read, the extra speed isn't a huge benefit ....
 
There ya go, that's my answer right there. Why buy a 9mm because the ammo is "cheap" and then pay out the backside for +p? Now you've got ammo that costs more than other calibers, negates any perceived advantage of reduced recoil, is more difficult to find and is harder on the gun. Or.... you could just buy a 357sig and be done with it. There's always a cartridge that can be loaded to standard levels and do the job of +p "lesser" cartridges.

Unless somebody shoots a 10mm +p+, then you might be hard to beat.
Click to expand...

Peetzakilla, I disagree with this statement. 9mm ammo is about as cheap as can be had for pistol ammo short of a .22; I can still buy it at $190/1000 locally, and reload it for half of that. There's no way you're going to find .357 sig ammo even close to the prices and quantity 9mm can be found.

My carry load has always been the same for 9mm; Federal 9bple. I have traditionally bought and continue to buy them at $25/50. I suspect .357 sig 'defense' ammo is at least double that, and is considerably harder to find than typical 9mm defense loads on top of it all, not the other way around as you state.

As has been mentioned before, 9mm service autos are largely built to handle 9mm NATO, which has pressures akin to commercial +P+ actually. So, you're not being any harder on the pistol than it was designed to handle; as I mentioned before a local department runs the same load as me in their 9mm Glocks, and according to the armorer have not experienced any side effects due to the ammo at all, despite the many years the load has been issued.

Recoil of a 9mm +P+ is percieved by me be less than a .357 Sig. I imagine it would be percieved by most people with most pistols that way, so I don't buy the recoil argument either.

As far as power goes, heres a comparison from Federal law enforcement ammo:

P357SHST1 125 gr. @ 1360 FPS 513 Ft-lb

9BPLE 115 gr. @ 1300 FPS 432 Ft-lb

Is 80 Ft-lb really worth the extra expense, recoil, hassle to find ammo, etc? For me it wasn't. If the Sig round had performed as originally intended and launched a 125 gr. slug at 1450 FPS, a la .357 Mag, then I might feel differently; but right now I feel it's really just a warmed over and relabeled .38 Super, and that round has been all but abandoned because of the 9mm +P+ loads.
 
I like Federal's .38 Spl 147gr +P+ HydraShok loading, but I sure wouldn't shoot it in any of my older K-frames...
 
My view is that if you think you need a +p+ loading in any gun you are using,that you should really consider moving to a stronger caliber in the guns you are using.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....I guess it depends on where you live and what you carry. Lots of folks carry a .380 and want the best-performing .380 they can find, because they view a 9mm (or larger) as being too large to carry.

I carry a 9mm sometimes (less all the time) and when I do it is loaded with 127 +p+ Rangers. Why? Because my Kahr PM9 is much smaller/lighter than the smallest/lightest .45acp.

When I carry a .45acp, it is a short-barrel, alloy framed 1911. I carry it with 230+p Rangers. Why? the short barrel gives up some velocity; the +p brings some of that velocity back.

For what it's worth, I am carrying an N-frame at this moment, but Spring has sprung. I won't be able to wear a big sweatshirt much longer, and will be looking to smaller options.
 
This argument always bother me. If someone gets shot with three .22's, three .32's, three .38's, three 9mm, etc. and the shooter hits the target in the center of mass, the target is going to be incapacitated at best, dead at worst. You don't have one bullet, you have 6, 7, 9 or 15+ bullets. Keep shooting, you will win. Now maybe if the person you are defending yourself against is a meth-head who is out of their mind, they may get a couple steps closer to you if you hit them with .22's instead of .45's. But for the most part, people that get shot RUN AWAY or STOP AND DIE. Use 9mm or 9mm +P. You have 17 damn bullets. Just keep shooting and those bullets will have their intended effect. And try to hit the target while you are at it.

My advice is to worry less about the caliber and worry more about being able to hit something with whatever caliber you chose.
 
Peetzakilla, I disagree with this statement. 9mm ammo is about as cheap as can be had for pistol ammo short of a .22; I can still buy it at $190/1000 locally, and reload it for half of that. There's no way you're going to find .357 sig ammo even close to the prices and quantity 9mm can be found.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the price and availablity of "+p" 9mm loads. They are LESS available and MORE expensive than Gold Dot 357sig and still offer LESS power whilst, presumably, being harder on the gun since they are generally not designed for those power levels.


As far as power goes, heres a comparison from Federal law enforcement ammo:

P357SHST1 125 gr. @ 1360 FPS 513 Ft-lb

9BPLE 115 gr. @ 1300 FPS 432 Ft-lb

Is 80 Ft-lb really worth the extra expense, recoil, hassle to find ammo, etc?
Click to expand...

Yes. It may only be "80lbs" but it's also 20% which is significant.

In any case, I'm not comparing standard 9mm with 357sig. I understand why people choose 9mm, cost and recoil... all that. My argument is what I said above, namely, they buy a 9mm for those reasons and then throw it all out the window by paying out the rear for +p which is harder on the gun, more expensive and harder to find than standard load 357sig.
 
Quote: Keltyke
"I wouldn't fire +p+ in anything but a gun chambered for magnum."

Sacramento P.D. went from the 158gr SWCHP FBI load to the Treasury Load Federal 110gr +P+ Controlled Expansion Bullet. in their K frame Issued Model 15 38spl's with no ill effects to the weapons.

Sacramento Sheriff's Department issued the Ranger 127gr +P+ 9mm Talons for officers with Sig Sauers but not for use in S&W Autos they had to use Standard +P.
 
presumably, being harder on the gun since they are generally not designed for those power levels.
Click to expand...

Peetzakilla, you keep repeating this same INACCURATE statement. 9x19 service pistols are by and large designed around 9mm NATO. 9mm NATO is IN EXCESS of 9mm luger +P and closer to 9mm luger +P+. USING COMMERCIAL 9MM +P+ IN A 9X19 CHAMBERED SERVICE PISTOL IS MOST LIKELY OPERATING WITHIN THE INTENDED DESIGN PARAMETERS OF THE WEAPON.

I'm talking about the price and availablity of "+p" 9mm loads. They are LESS available and MORE expensive than Gold Dot 357sig and still offer LESS power
Click to expand...

That is not the case in SE MI; 9mm +P is more common by a long shot and I have never seen .357 Sig defensive ammo anywhere near $25/50, which is what my 9mm +P+ usually go for.

EDIT: I'm looking online and finding that 9mm+P is usually at least 10% cheaper (if not significantly more) than identical .357 Sig; at least at the internet shops I frequent. Where are you getting pricing from?

My argument is what I said above, namely, they buy a 9mm for those reasons and then throw it all out the window by paying out the rear for +p which is harder on the gun, more expensive and harder to find than standard load 357sig.
Click to expand...

See above.
 
Last edited:
The cartridges offered in +P are all older cartridges. In standard loadings, they must be safe to fire in pistols with nearly a century of use and built with the best metal available a century ago.

In a recently made pistol, the +P load is no big deal. Today, almost every gun maker says that the use of +P ammo will not void your warrenty. Some will tell you that regualar use of +P ammo will reduce the life of your pistol, which is true, just as using super light target loads will extend the life of your gun. Big deal - your lawn mower will last longer if you never cut thick grass, but you bought a tool to do a job.

+P+ is indeed very hot ammo, but if you need to use a pistol to keep yourself alive, the expense and extra wear on you firearm is not a big concern.
 
One thing to note is that many of the switches from 158gr .38 spcl. FBI loading is to a 100gr-125gr +P. Many revolvers will take the pressure, but not the pounding caused by the recoiling of heavy bullets. I wonder if this has something to do with the lack of apparent wear.

The K frame Smiths are also plenty strong for any .38 spcl. so I don't know if you would see any predicable difference in those guns.
 
It's all about versatility...I can walk into Walmart and but a 100pk of FMJ for a fun day at the range, and then go home and load my Beretta 92FS with Ranger 127gn +P+ for HD. The last box of Ranger +P+ cost me $25, and will last me a long time, unless I decide to try it out in my Sig P6, which is my alternate HD/CCW pistol. It is currently loaded with +P GoldDot 124gn JHP's.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top