Are +p And+p+ Ammo Worth It
- Thread starter mrt949
- Start date
+p+ is really hot loaded ammo and there are many manufacturers that actively warn against using it in their guns.
+p has become a industry standard hot loading but it to requires the user to check the gun they are using to see if it is made for the load.
Both +p and +p+ were developed as responses to police shootings where the police thought that the 'standard' loads they were using required more power to work better.
My view is that if you think you need a +p+ loading in any gun you are using,that you should really consider moving to a stronger caliber in the guns you are using.
But after reading of some really great performance differences between the standard 9mm round and +p 9mm rounds through some police shooting data,I am considering loading +p 115 grain hollowpoints in my Ruger P95 for home defense.
The Ruger is a large,very strong handgun that I have no doubt can handle the my limited use of and increased power of the +p round.
But if I wanted a +P+ round in 9mm,I'd simply get a 40 S&W or even better a 10mm semi-auto loader.
+p has become a industry standard hot loading but it to requires the user to check the gun they are using to see if it is made for the load.
Both +p and +p+ were developed as responses to police shootings where the police thought that the 'standard' loads they were using required more power to work better.
My view is that if you think you need a +p+ loading in any gun you are using,that you should really consider moving to a stronger caliber in the guns you are using.
But after reading of some really great performance differences between the standard 9mm round and +p 9mm rounds through some police shooting data,I am considering loading +p 115 grain hollowpoints in my Ruger P95 for home defense.
The Ruger is a large,very strong handgun that I have no doubt can handle the my limited use of and increased power of the +p round.
But if I wanted a +P+ round in 9mm,I'd simply get a 40 S&W or even better a 10mm semi-auto loader.
Some Are
Whether or not it will be of use to you to load +P or +P+ in a pistol (that can safely handle it, of course), depends on whether or not the extra pressure will translate into extra velocity. Velocity is the point in creating the extra chamber pressure in the first place so, without it, it is a pointless exercise in wear acceleration. And yes, there have been some +P loads made that produce no appreciable increase in velocity, other than the speed with which they move off the dealer's shelves.
All +P ammo should come in under SAAMI pressure specs for it. +P+ gets out of spec entirely, but not necessarily to dangerous levels. SAAMI pressure specs for 9mm is 35,000 psi for standard pressure, and 38,500 psi (or +10%) for +P. So, if a load goes to 38,501 psi it becomes +P+. Is that dangerously over the level? It might be for an older, non +P rated gun that you are already pushing to it's limits with +P ammo. A modern +P rated service pistol probably won't notice the difference. This goes for compact versions of service pistols, too (Glock G26, S&W M&P9c, etc.), which is nice, because, with their shorter barrel, they can use the extra help in keeping speed up.
In revolvers, .38 Special is the one cartridge that routinely gets loaded to +P levels, and the only one I'm aware of to be factory loaded to +P and +P+. Many modern revolvers are labeled ".38 Special +P." For them, there is no doubt. For older guns marked only ".38 Special," it is important to find out from a trustworthy source, ideally the manufacturer, whether or not your gun can handle +Ps. The older the revolver is, the dicier the prospect, especially if it is a 5-shot snubbie with thin little chamber walls. +P+ should never be used in a .38 Special, as it was designed for use in .357 Magnums.
But wait! There's more!
My two pet carry loads in 9mm are Winchester's RA9TA 127gr +P+, and Federal's 9BPLE 115gr. +P+. Winchester claims 42,000 CUP for their load. While there is really no conversion table for CUP to psi, from what I can discern 42,000 is right in the range where the two scales agree to an extent. This means that the Winchester load is probably somewhere around 40,000 psi. That is hot 9mm. The Federal load has reported to be designed to produce only the very top of SAAMI's 38,500 psi limit. The reason, they label it +P+, so the story goes, is to take into account any variances in manufacturing that produce individual cartridges that might be ever-so-slightly over-pressure.
These two loads really capitalize on the higher pressures, and have earned an excellent reputation for effectiveness in actual use. There are others. I won't try to make a list of them, because I would surely leave some deserving ones out, and that would offend someone, and that would, I predict, divert this thread from discussion on pressure to a discussion on bullet weight (which it very well may devolve into anyway).
Now, how much will you pay?
In the end, you don't need +P or +P+. There are good standard pressure loads. If your gun is not cool with +P and up, you can do fine with one of them. If it can handle it, though, you don't necessarily have to pay through the nose for +P or +P+. I personally have been buying the Federal 9BPLE lately, as overruns and surplussed lots have been periodically hitting the market (they only produce it for LE agency sales). It's still going for less than $20 per box of 50. I also just purchased a couple of boxes of Federal's .38 Special 158gr. LSWCHP +P for about the same price. And there are others in various flavors to suit your tastes. While I truly believe in paying more for more when my life is on the line, when the opportunity arises to the good stuff and save money...well, I may be stupid, but I'm not that kind of stupid!
Whether or not it will be of use to you to load +P or +P+ in a pistol (that can safely handle it, of course), depends on whether or not the extra pressure will translate into extra velocity. Velocity is the point in creating the extra chamber pressure in the first place so, without it, it is a pointless exercise in wear acceleration. And yes, there have been some +P loads made that produce no appreciable increase in velocity, other than the speed with which they move off the dealer's shelves.
All +P ammo should come in under SAAMI pressure specs for it. +P+ gets out of spec entirely, but not necessarily to dangerous levels. SAAMI pressure specs for 9mm is 35,000 psi for standard pressure, and 38,500 psi (or +10%) for +P. So, if a load goes to 38,501 psi it becomes +P+. Is that dangerously over the level? It might be for an older, non +P rated gun that you are already pushing to it's limits with +P ammo. A modern +P rated service pistol probably won't notice the difference. This goes for compact versions of service pistols, too (Glock G26, S&W M&P9c, etc.), which is nice, because, with their shorter barrel, they can use the extra help in keeping speed up.
In revolvers, .38 Special is the one cartridge that routinely gets loaded to +P levels, and the only one I'm aware of to be factory loaded to +P and +P+. Many modern revolvers are labeled ".38 Special +P." For them, there is no doubt. For older guns marked only ".38 Special," it is important to find out from a trustworthy source, ideally the manufacturer, whether or not your gun can handle +Ps. The older the revolver is, the dicier the prospect, especially if it is a 5-shot snubbie with thin little chamber walls. +P+ should never be used in a .38 Special, as it was designed for use in .357 Magnums.
But wait! There's more!
My two pet carry loads in 9mm are Winchester's RA9TA 127gr +P+, and Federal's 9BPLE 115gr. +P+. Winchester claims 42,000 CUP for their load. While there is really no conversion table for CUP to psi, from what I can discern 42,000 is right in the range where the two scales agree to an extent. This means that the Winchester load is probably somewhere around 40,000 psi. That is hot 9mm. The Federal load has reported to be designed to produce only the very top of SAAMI's 38,500 psi limit. The reason, they label it +P+, so the story goes, is to take into account any variances in manufacturing that produce individual cartridges that might be ever-so-slightly over-pressure.
These two loads really capitalize on the higher pressures, and have earned an excellent reputation for effectiveness in actual use. There are others. I won't try to make a list of them, because I would surely leave some deserving ones out, and that would offend someone, and that would, I predict, divert this thread from discussion on pressure to a discussion on bullet weight (which it very well may devolve into anyway).
Now, how much will you pay?
In the end, you don't need +P or +P+. There are good standard pressure loads. If your gun is not cool with +P and up, you can do fine with one of them. If it can handle it, though, you don't necessarily have to pay through the nose for +P or +P+. I personally have been buying the Federal 9BPLE lately, as overruns and surplussed lots have been periodically hitting the market (they only produce it for LE agency sales). It's still going for less than $20 per box of 50. I also just purchased a couple of boxes of Federal's .38 Special 158gr. LSWCHP +P for about the same price. And there are others in various flavors to suit your tastes. While I truly believe in paying more for more when my life is on the line, when the opportunity arises to the good stuff and save money...well, I may be stupid, but I'm not that kind of stupid!
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45_Shooter
New member
I carry Federal 9BPLE 115 gr. +P+ hollow points; they have been fine in my Sig P226, Glock 17 and Glock 19. One local police department carries the same load in the 9mm Glock family, and the armorer I spoke to said they've experienced no ill effects from it at all and that they were very happy.
Now, .38 Special +P+ is another animal that should only be fired out of .357 Magnum guns.
Now, .38 Special +P+ is another animal that should only be fired out of .357 Magnum guns.
Shadi Khalil
New member
I shoot +p+ out of a non mag chambered handgun and I havent had any problems. Over course it limited use but I fel like it could stand up to more than my usual.
I got a box of +P+ .38 that is old, it was apparently surplus from the Cinn. PD. I think they were using in K frame .38's with 4 inch barrels. I tried some in the 2 inch K frame once. Did not hurt the gun any but was very very D**n loud, at an outdoor range. I had plugs and muffs on and still was a bit much for me. Then again I have not used full mag loads in a 2 inch gun so I don't know the comparison, the bullets are 110 HP if that makes any diff. It is not something I would use over a +P load for normal use I don't think. I have tried some +P+ in 9MM guns and it seems to have some little more recoil but it was not like the difference between regular or +P .38 and +P+ .38 as far as I remember. I got a few boxes of it for the 9, it is for serious stuff, not playing at the range. Too expensive for that, too. Now it is for sure. Not when I bought it.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Note that not all +P ammo will necessarily translate into additional performance. One brand's +P may be comparable to, slower than, or faster than the standard load of another brand. In other words, you need to check carefully to find out if you are actually getting anything significantly better.
Tried, but, no thanks.....
I tried various +p loads when I first got into shooting several years ago. I did not like the additional noise, flash and recoil, so just have not used them. All my regular carry guns seem to cycle and operate just fine on the basic 9mm Winchester Personal Protection JHP purchased at Wally World.
From collateral reading, the statistics seem to indicate that the most important thing about stopping a treat is having a gun--any gun.
Sure, bigger is better, but bigger and +p?
Maybe the data are out there, but I've never seen statistics that address the question of whether or not +p in and of itself is good/better.
My own opinion is that it does not make a meaningful difference--being armed, trained and prepared does.
My .02
FBT
I tried various +p loads when I first got into shooting several years ago. I did not like the additional noise, flash and recoil, so just have not used them. All my regular carry guns seem to cycle and operate just fine on the basic 9mm Winchester Personal Protection JHP purchased at Wally World.
From collateral reading, the statistics seem to indicate that the most important thing about stopping a treat is having a gun--any gun.
Sure, bigger is better, but bigger and +p?
Maybe the data are out there, but I've never seen statistics that address the question of whether or not +p in and of itself is good/better.
My own opinion is that it does not make a meaningful difference--being armed, trained and prepared does.
My .02
FBT
If your gun is rated for +p and it doesn't bother you, the extra velocity couldn't hurt anything. If the ammo is loaded by the same people who make the bullet (like Hornady factory ammo with Hornady bullets), they seldom exceed the capabilities of the bullet with the velocity.
However, +p+ is not certified by Sporting Arms and Amunition Manufacturers Institute. In many calibers, e.g. .40 S&W and .44 Magnum, there is no +p, so any +p versions of those calibers are also not endorsed. You are now getting extra wear and tear on your gun for a relatively small amount of extra speed.
Handloaders can tell you, when pressure starts spiking, velocity really doesn't go up a corresponding amount.
In summary, SAAMI +p yes.
Non-SAAMI +p and +p+, no.
However, +p+ is not certified by Sporting Arms and Amunition Manufacturers Institute. In many calibers, e.g. .40 S&W and .44 Magnum, there is no +p, so any +p versions of those calibers are also not endorsed. You are now getting extra wear and tear on your gun for a relatively small amount of extra speed.
Handloaders can tell you, when pressure starts spiking, velocity really doesn't go up a corresponding amount.
In summary, SAAMI +p yes.
Non-SAAMI +p and +p+, no.
My HD load in my Beretta 92FS is the Ranger 127gn +P+ load. This is a load that has a proven track record.
Will I shoot enough to harm the gun? No, just enough to confirm function and zero. Besides, most service 9's are made for 9mm NATO, a load which has no SAAMI rating and which approaches +P+ level.
Will I shoot enough to harm the gun? No, just enough to confirm function and zero. Besides, most service 9's are made for 9mm NATO, a load which has no SAAMI rating and which approaches +P+ level.
good question
"+P" can aid performance in the 9x19 (recommend) and 38 Special (up to the specific gun and user), and is generally worthless in 45 ACP.
+P+ is SAAMI-speak for "no determined pressure level", available only in 9x19. There are no other 'official' +P or +P+ chamberings; any so marked are done so for marketing purposes only.
"+P" can aid performance in the 9x19 (recommend) and 38 Special (up to the specific gun and user), and is generally worthless in 45 ACP.
+P+ is SAAMI-speak for "no determined pressure level", available only in 9x19. There are no other 'official' +P or +P+ chamberings; any so marked are done so for marketing purposes only.
(quote)+ p and +p+ ammo worth the extra cost? (/quote)
That's something you are gonna have to work out, all guns are differant, all guns react to differant ammo differantly.
Here is an example: Two bullets out of my Smith 642, the one on the left is a Black Hills 125 grn +P load, The one on the right is my cast 150 grn SWC (Lvman 358477) loaded with 4.5 grns of 231, its not a +P load by any stretch.
Both were fired into a phone book, One mushroomed, one didnt. In my case +Ps dont work in my 642. Granted its not a scientific test, but it does give me an ideal what the two bullets do in my little pocket pistol.
I'll stick with my reloads with cast SWC bullets thank you.
That's something you are gonna have to work out, all guns are differant, all guns react to differant ammo differantly.
Here is an example: Two bullets out of my Smith 642, the one on the left is a Black Hills 125 grn +P load, The one on the right is my cast 150 grn SWC (Lvman 358477) loaded with 4.5 grns of 231, its not a +P load by any stretch.
Both were fired into a phone book, One mushroomed, one didnt. In my case +Ps dont work in my 642. Granted its not a scientific test, but it does give me an ideal what the two bullets do in my little pocket pistol.
I'll stick with my reloads with cast SWC bullets thank you.
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harleyriderTN
New member
the only gun i wont shoot plus rated amo in is my raven mp 25 just because its made of a zinc alloy and pot metal. I shoot 38 special p ammo through my dads 357 mag all the time.
If I thought I might, I would keep a bottle of water handy. Dump the water on him before shooting, everyone knows bullets expand better in wet phonebooks!