Are night sights really worth the money

[AK103K]

I know my white dots are far superior in daylight to my nite-sights.

You must have the wrong night sights.

I will not chose or reject a gun based on either set of sights, but I will not pay extra for night sights.

Hey, this is where everyone assesses their own personal needs and makes a choice. I personally would reject a gun that was not night sight capable (if it was equipped with sights), and gladly pay the small premium they require to get them.

As with anything else, the first time you REALLY need something and dont have it, is usually the last time you'll do without it, when at all possible. If there is a next time that is.

 

[hkg3]

Then ask yourself, how many situations exist where white dot sights would be more advantageous and quicker with which to get an accurate sight picture. I know my white dots are far superior in daylight to my nite-sights.

My tritium sights are bright white during the day. I have no problems seeing them.

Any advantage white dot would have over tritium during the day would be more than offset by the advantage tritium would have at night.

Unfortunately I can't get my camera to focus on the front sight.

 

[sholling]

What are these situation? Should a person be shooting at distant targets in the dark? How likely is someone to face this decision?

How likely is it that you will be pointing a gun at somebody? Why be 1/2 way prepared?

 

[Erik]

Another "my night sights are white" in the light comment.

"Any advantage white dot would have over tritium during the day would be more than offset by the advantage tritium would have at night."

Agreed.

 

[3 gun]

We did a night shoot a while back and I was surprised at how far away you can see the glow from night sights in true total darkness. You could even clearly see the one guys face when he held the pistol in a firing position. Even with the NS you still need to find the front sight in the rear for good hits. Not always easy. As NS go I like the ones that use different shapes or colors or both to help you tell which one is the front or rear. XS big dots work nice. Even they will go dim over time just like all the rest.

I prefer a laser myself. No glow to give you away. No alignment issues, just place the dot on target. You don't even have to be behind the pistol to aim, allowing you to use cover more completely. Some will even claim that putting the dot on target can keep you from having to shoot since the bad guy knows where you are aimed. Sure you have to replace batteries but that is cheaper than replacing NS every 10 or so years. The Crimson Trace grips come on when you grip the the pistol, no extra switch to flip. You can keep the laser off by just slacking your grip slightly. I have three sets already and looking for a fourth for my CZ.

Low light shooting is tough. Any edge you can get is worthwhile.

 

[Creature]

Quote:

Absolutely positively yes. I don't consider any pistol a defense pistol until it has night sights...I consider it a sport or target pistol only.

Why?

Shooting in low light conditions is very possible in a defensive situation. I don't consider plain silhouette sights, or even white dot sights, suitable for those conditions. Despite what many think, aimed shots can very well be taken during a gun fight, even if only a flash picture of your sights.

The whole "you will only use night sights in complete dark...in which case you shouldn't shoot because you cant be sure of your target" argument is a fallacy. Night sights are extremely effective in assisting in low-light and/or high-contrast shadow situations. Low light and deep shadows can happen during daylight hours because of structural recesses of enclosed spaces. I have done training in structures where I was completely at a disadvantage in sighting my pistol because I only had plain silhouette sights (yes we had flashlights, but there were times when I could not employ my flashlight). I remember saying to myself "never again". I had night sights installed on all of my personal pistols in short order after that.

To say you will never need (more like never want) night sights is limiting yourself needlessly when a very simple and effective solution exists.

So, I think the more pertinent question would be, why not?

 

[22-rimfire]

If they are offered, I would get them on a new handgun. If not, I wouldn't concern myself. I do like some of the sights that XS offers. How often you ever shoot at night if you aren't a police officer? Let's say you are in a situation where you (Joe civilian) draw your weapon and shoot at night at a range where it mattered.... was your life really in danger? All that said, I think a lot of the new whiz bang sights are interesting, but I choose them based on day time shooting.

 

[Creature]

How often you ever shoot at night if you aren't a police officer? Let's say you are in a situation where you (Joe civilian) draw your weapon and shoot at night at a range where it mattered.... was your life really in danger?

Why dont you find out how many civilian defensive confrontations/shootings occurred at night in a dark environment before you raise the question? You might be surprised at the answer.

And to your second question, I can think of several scenarios without stretching the imagination where this could easily be the case.

 

[AK103K]

How often you ever shoot at night if you aren't a police officer?

All the time, and "people" are not always the problem or the target. The same gun is always along, either way, no matter what might pop up.

Let's say you are in a situation where you (Joe civilian) draw your weapon and shoot at night at a range where it mattered.... was your life really in danger?

Again, this is only a question the shooter can answer, and will have to answer to. We can pick and choose scenarios to make our specific points all day (and night ) long, but reality is, if you dont have them, I'll guarantee you'll WISH you had them the very first time you REALLY need them, and if you come through that experience, you'll soon have them on any gun you want to count on.

Just for curiosity's sake here, how many that dont like them, or seem to have an issue with them, actually ever used them in any capacity other than maybe a darkened range?

Even with the NS you still need to find the front sight in the rear for good hits. Not always easy.

I suppose this would depend on how much you practice and the type of sights you have. This is one of the main reasons I prefer the three dots. You dont have to "find" anything, the gun comes up and there is a neat little row of glowing dots right where the gun was presented. No trying to figure out any alignment. The bullet goes where the middle dot is. Even when held in a low ready just below your line of sights, there is a small triangle of dots pointing the way the gun is looking and the front sight is always visible. As the gun comes up, you always know where the muzzle is going and as it rocks into position the triangle becomes a row of evenly spaced dots, and again, the bullet goes where the middle one is.

The so called "misalignment" issue is a non issue. You actually have to work at getting them to be improperly aligned, and when you do it, its instantly and uncomfortably noticeable.

I prefer a laser myself. No glow to give you away.

I have to wonder if you've ever seen a laser in the dark, especially one pointed at you. Even in the daylight, they are quite bright.

Some will even claim that putting the dot on target can keep you from having to shoot since the bad guy knows where you are aimed.

I seriously doubt they will be looking for a dot on their chest, but instead, shooting at that bright red ball in front of them.

Sure you have to replace batteries but that is cheaper than replacing NS every 10 or so years.

I'll bet it works out to be the same or even cheaper for the night sights over time. $70 a set for night sights over 12 years....$5.83/year. what do the batteries in your CT's cost you a year?

 

[Jermtheory]

am i the only one who always uses their sights(well,front mostly)...at any range which allows you to fully present and do so?

The so called "misalignment" issue is a non issue. You actually have to work at getting them to be improperly aligned, and when you do it, its instantly and uncomfortably noticeable.

i think we've been here before.

i'll just say that i disagree (as do many top instructors,shooters,etc).even if it isnt an issue...there is most definately no issue with contrasting front/rear sights.

...i think that was the only thing you've posted in this thread that i wasnt in agreement with though.

 

[3 gun]

Since half of the day is really night doing something to help put rounds on target in the "worst case" just seems like a good idea. I have seen more than one shooter come to the line in a night match and miss align three dot NS that are the same color, in the same shoot. Granted under the clock isn't nearly as stressful as real life but if they have trouble here I'd guess they would have trouble anywhere. Overall the guys who come out to these shoots are the ones who shoot a lot more than the average gun owner.

So after the fourth or fifth miss they noticed the "middle" dot was really a rear dot and that the left/right dot was really the front, but will you get that many chances in real life? And what happens to those rounds, you sure don't really know where they went. If you are going to get NS get the ones that are a different color front and rear or different shapes or both.

As for battery cost, I replace mine twice a year, just to be safe. The last time the batteries were $.50 each, on sale. Even at the corner store mark up they are only $2 each, so the worst I'm looking at is $8 a year. Of course the last ones had a use before 2012 date so I got a handful.

I don't buy into the red dot stopping someone idea. When they (bad guys) see my laser the 357mag Gold Dot will be a nano second behind it. If you use the Crimson Trace correctly you don't activate the laser until you are bringing the pistol on target. You don't walk around with it on like a beacon.

Bottom line is when the scoring is all done it's the guys using laser/light combos on top. Laser and red dot users with hand held lights fall in behind them. Guys with night sights and flashlights finish ahead of the guys with just irons. Sure the range isn't real life, and there is some overlap between the groups, but it does give you an idea of what does and doesn't work.

 

[ForneyRider]

Can't they just replace the vial of tritium?

 

[Recon7]

PBP, Aren't you the same penguin from this thread?
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295610
I'm pretty sure there's only one aquatic flightless bird on this forum.

And IIRC he likes to play devils advocate

 

[ForneyRider]

Been window shopping for night sights myself.

Meprolights front aperture looks pretty slick. It is narrow, the other brands are blade type like a revolver. But not much selection for colors like pistol night sights.

 

[Jermtheory]

on an AR?...

i have the Mepro,cant complain.

green is what you want in that case anyway(being the front sight and the only sight).i wouldnt bother with the rear night sights on an AR.

 

[kiloxj]

Its always to each his own

i have meprolight on my glock, i personally think that unless u have a light itsnot worth it, After dealing with the hodgies in the sands of greatness, at night if you need to use ur weapon its a split second decision,night sites wont help, on the other hand i chose to use a weapon light with laser, the light allows u to see them, they are unable to c u holding ur weapon out with ur arm, so if they fire they hit ur arm not heart, and the laser is for intimidation. In the real world, if you are in a civilian situation that involves you having to pull a firearm, none of htat really matters. Its your knowledge and instinct that will go from there. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. But for just shooting in low light for fun, i have trijicon front site post on my RRA and its a must, but on a pistol its 100 buks u will never get back, ads no value even though people think it does. If you want get, this is our hobby like people that Trail ride buy stuff they want but dont need.

 

[AK103K]

on an AR?...

I probably wouldnt put them on the rear sight on an AR, its to close to your eye to matter and most likely be annoying. With the rear peep, if youve shouldered the gun properly, you should be looking through the peep anyway, if not, you probably wont be seeing the front sight.

I do have them (Meprolights) on a couple of AK's and a shotgun and they work very well. The rear sights on both are more forward and far enough away from your eye not to be an issue. The rear dots on the AK are a tad bright and could be a tad smaller, but they work fine all the same . The shotguns dots are a little smaller and more even in apparent brightness. I'd actually like to have the shotgun size rear on my AK, but thats life.

With the AK, which also have a cowitnessed Aimpoints on them, as the rifle comes up, you see a small green "flying saucer" triangle pointing to the dot on the Aimpoint. With the shotgun, you just get the triange pointing towards where your looking until the gun snaps in, and then you have your typical three dot line.

Oh, alignment isnt an issue on the long guns either.

 

[Don Gwinn]

If you take point-shooting pretty seriously and really drill it, then you MIGHT not have to use the sights at 7 yards. If you've never missed from 7 yards, though, then you probably haven't shot fast or under pressure. If you aren't a serious practicioner of point-shooting, trained in its mysterious ways, I wouldn't count on getting through a shooting encounter without using some kind of sight picture.

Now, are night sights necessary? If you might be shooting in the dark (IOW, if this is a defensive gun) then they're great. "Necessary" is a tricky idea. If you can see your sights but not your target, you're in trouble anyway. If you have a light and use it to illuminate your target, then your dark sights might (or might not) stand out as silhouettes as long as the target is lit up. A fiber-optic sight will probably gather enough light to be pretty bright under those circumstances, too.

But I like night sights, so I'm all for 'em.

 

[Jermtheory]

I probably wouldnt put them on the rear sight on an AR, its to close to your eye to matter and most likely be annoying. With the rear peep, if youve shouldered the gun properly, you should be looking through the peep anyway, if not, you probably wont be seeing the front sight.

exactly.

Oh, alignment isnt an issue on the long guns either.

i might have to agree there.

with the stock for reference,the aperture so close to your eye,and that much length of weapon for reference and stability...

now take away the stock...push the rear sight out much further from you eye...cut down the sight radius by many times over...add 3 identical dots...

 

[Topthis]

It's been touched on here a bit, but I for one do not see the NEED for night sights. Most of the folks that I shoot with have them on their guns and they gave me crap (actually it was the term "Cheap" they used). When I challenged them to a Point and Shoot @ 7 and 10yrds, I found that almost all of them took the extra time to look at the sights and still fire semi slowly to acquire after each shot...which was not the drill or the point. After explaining what I wanted them to do again, they complied and understood MY reasoning behind not getting night sights. I am not sure that in a SD situation, I am going to have the time to take that aim and fire. When I drill...I drill 7 and 10yrds Point and Shoot, I am not looking for nice grouping or accuracy, heck, I am looking to put as many holes all over that silhouette as possible...y'know, more bleeding wound channels the better right? On my XD I completely blackened out the sights, just to train myself not to even try to look for the dots.
I will say though...night sights do look cool as heck!
As for Playboypenguin just playing Devils Advocate...you chose the wrong Thread to "out" him. You should have chosen the ones where he shows his vast collection of guns. Which, I believe makes his comments more out of experience than trying to banter. I personally would take his advice and opinions seriously, due to the fact that he has such vast experience with pretty much every friggin' gun out there. Just my thoughts.