DiscoRacing
New member
might be why I headshot with fmj bullets
Are Lead Fragments in Your Venison?
- Thread starter simonkenton
- Start date
davlandrum
New member
That is why the pioneers died out - lead poisoning 
Every critter I shoot, I take more time than I need to trying to find all the little bits of bullet. Not because I am worried about lead, but because I want to see how my bullet performed in the animal. I've got a box of recovered bullets I keep on my reloading bench, either from critters I've taken, or critters I've butchered for other people. Some tend to break up, but a person who is even a little cautious in cleaning up blood shot meat will find 99.9 percent of every bullet in a deer, goat, or elk. Using bullets made of non toxic metals is fine if you are worried about lead, but as far as it becoming law, well I won't curse, but I disagree. Been tested for lead exposure, welding on vessels coated in lead based paint, and welding in general, probably have more lead in my system than the average joe. Doc told me my levels were fine. Overexposure to anything is bad, my wife thinks that too many guns, and too many beers will be hazardous to my health.
reloader28
New member
Dont use Winchester 180gr RN in 308. Helped a friend butcher his deer last week and found the bullet. Went from 180gr to 151gr. Thats alot of lead somewhere but we never found any in the meat. He hit it in the lungs. I'm sure we missed some small fragments, but that is not good weight retention.
simonkenton
New member
Been tested for lead exposure, welding on vessels coated in lead based paint, and welding in general, probably have more lead in my system than the average joe. Doc told me my levels were fine.
You probably got the wrong test.
Most doctors have little understanding of lead toxicity.
I bet you got a blood test.
If you are suffering from short-term lead exposure, maybe you work in a battery recycling plant, and you are working on a 2-ton vat of molten lead all day, and your breathing apparatus malfunctioned for a week and you start feeling sick, you could get a blood test right then and get an accurate reading.
If you are suffering from long-term exposure to lead, you may be suffering from lead poisoning symptoms, but your blood test will be ok.
This is because your body stashes the lead away in the deep tissues.
To properly test for long-term lead exposure you need to do a urine challenge test.
Most doctors do not know, or understand, or care about doing a proper lead test.
In my case, my doc gave me two capsules called DMSA. This is a drug that will pull the lead out of the deep tissues.
The doc gave me a 2 gallon jug, I had to save my urine for 24 hours. Then I sent in a test tube of that urine to be tested.
I was three times the toxic level of lead.
That was interesting because I knew I was sick as hell, I suspected arsenic poisoning. I was building a lot of pressure treated decks and I like to work with my bare hands. I figured I might have picked up arsenic from working with all that arsenic-treated wood.
No, the urine challenge test showed non-toxic levels of arsenic.
I had gotten a blood test by a different doc 2 years earlier, he said my blood work was fine and I didn't need to worry about lead poisoning.
You probably got the wrong test.
Most doctors have little understanding of lead toxicity.
I bet you got a blood test.
If you are suffering from short-term lead exposure, maybe you work in a battery recycling plant, and you are working on a 2-ton vat of molten lead all day, and your breathing apparatus malfunctioned for a week and you start feeling sick, you could get a blood test right then and get an accurate reading.
If you are suffering from long-term exposure to lead, you may be suffering from lead poisoning symptoms, but your blood test will be ok.
This is because your body stashes the lead away in the deep tissues.
To properly test for long-term lead exposure you need to do a urine challenge test.
Most doctors do not know, or understand, or care about doing a proper lead test.
In my case, my doc gave me two capsules called DMSA. This is a drug that will pull the lead out of the deep tissues.
The doc gave me a 2 gallon jug, I had to save my urine for 24 hours. Then I sent in a test tube of that urine to be tested.
I was three times the toxic level of lead.
That was interesting because I knew I was sick as hell, I suspected arsenic poisoning. I was building a lot of pressure treated decks and I like to work with my bare hands. I figured I might have picked up arsenic from working with all that arsenic-treated wood.
No, the urine challenge test showed non-toxic levels of arsenic.
I had gotten a blood test by a different doc 2 years earlier, he said my blood work was fine and I didn't need to worry about lead poisoning.
Last edited:
I don't even want to know what my lead level is...
I have opened and pinched jillions of split shot with my teeth and carried dozens of pounds of air rifle pellets in my mouth for quick access...
All this on top of the other ways a redneck kid can get into lead.
Brent
I have opened and pinched jillions of split shot with my teeth and carried dozens of pounds of air rifle pellets in my mouth for quick access...
All this on top of the other ways a redneck kid can get into lead.
Brent
2damnold4this
New member
That is why the pioneers died out - lead poisoning
Well, they are all dead. Seriously, our ancestors killed their game with lower velocity bullets than we use today. From the study simonkenton posted we can see that muzzleloader bullets and shotgun slugs tend to fragment less and leave less lead in the meat than the modern high velocity ammunition we use today.
The CDC's North Dakota study suggest that most people don't have to worry about lead exposure even if the venison is harvested with high velocity lead ammunition but people who are have certain risk factors should be aware that they might be exposed to a bit more lead. If I had health problems due to elevated lead levels like simonkenton, I would want to watch what I ate very carefully. For most of us, the health benefits of eating venison harvested with high velocity lead bullets will far outweigh the slight increase in lead levels in our bodies. Most of us should be fine but it's perfectly understandable that some of us need to be a bit more cautious.
Well, they are all dead. Seriously, our ancestors killed their game with lower velocity bullets than we use today. From the study simonkenton posted we can see that muzzleloader bullets and shotgun slugs tend to fragment less and leave less lead in the meat than the modern high velocity ammunition we use today.
The CDC's North Dakota study suggest that most people don't have to worry about lead exposure even if the venison is harvested with high velocity lead ammunition but people who are have certain risk factors should be aware that they might be exposed to a bit more lead. If I had health problems due to elevated lead levels like simonkenton, I would want to watch what I ate very carefully. For most of us, the health benefits of eating venison harvested with high velocity lead bullets will far outweigh the slight increase in lead levels in our bodies. Most of us should be fine but it's perfectly understandable that some of us need to be a bit more cautious.
globemaster3
New member
Minnesota ran this study in April of 2008 and these quotes were taken from The Star Tribune in Minneapolis. This was the result:
What sparked it was this:
The result was the state discarding all the donated venison provided by the Hunters for the Hungry program. Important to note also: there were no reports of illness from lead ingestion from donated meat.
But, the NRA reported this
which seems to unveil a hidden agenda.
The NRA also posted some great Q&As here:
http://www.nrahunterrights.org/LeadIssues.aspx
In the end, the Hunters for the Hungry program is still providing donated meat. Its being xrayed for contamination which runs ~$6,000/year.
What I wish I could find, and I don't have time for a search here, is the article highlighting any tainted testing methods used by the original study's author. I thought I remember something on it, but couldn't find it on the web.
What sparked it was this:
The result was the state discarding all the donated venison provided by the Hunters for the Hungry program. Important to note also: there were no reports of illness from lead ingestion from donated meat.
But, the NRA reported this
from this site http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=597
which seems to unveil a hidden agenda.
The NRA also posted some great Q&As here:
http://www.nrahunterrights.org/LeadIssues.aspx
In the end, the Hunters for the Hungry program is still providing donated meat. Its being xrayed for contamination which runs ~$6,000/year.
What I wish I could find, and I don't have time for a search here, is the article highlighting any tainted testing methods used by the original study's author. I thought I remember something on it, but couldn't find it on the web.
2damnold4this
New member
I think the CDC's North Dakota study put to rest most of the questions about lead in venison. It came out in October 2008 http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/ND_report.pdf
Double Naught Spy
New member
Some folks are more sensitive to lead than others. Then again, some are more sensitive to a lot of chemicals, minerals, etc. simonkenton may be overly sensitive or have had extensive exposure outside of hunted food. hogdogs may not be sensitive or not one to retain lead in his system readily despite obvious unsafe behaviors (you didn't eat lead paint chips as well, did you?). I see these two as something of being at the extremes with most of us falling well between them.
You have to admit, given our proclivity for distrusting the government and the CDC being a government organization, the CDC being full of doctors and so many of us not trusting doctors as apparently so many are anti-gun, then if the CDC isn't having a problem with said hunted meat, I have to think the problem some folks may be experiencing with slightly tainted meat is either because they are biologically extreme (overly sensitive) or have suffered other environmental factors.
davlandrum
New member
Thanks for the link, 2damnold4this.
The key paragraph, in my opinion is on page 9, last paragraph -
paraphrased paragraph - study suggests consumption of wild game can impact lead levels, the geometric mean of lead levels in this study WAS LOWER than the overall population... (my emphasis).
It further goes on to talk about the mean lead levels in the population going down in recent decades, but still being several orders of magnitude higher than preindustrial society.
I would be curious to see a similar study done with commercially prepared beef. How much is coming off the grinders and saws.....
The key paragraph, in my opinion is on page 9, last paragraph -
paraphrased paragraph - study suggests consumption of wild game can impact lead levels, the geometric mean of lead levels in this study WAS LOWER than the overall population... (my emphasis).
It further goes on to talk about the mean lead levels in the population going down in recent decades, but still being several orders of magnitude higher than preindustrial society.
I would be curious to see a similar study done with commercially prepared beef. How much is coming off the grinders and saws.....
Double Naught Spy
New member
So you are saying/suggesting that those who are regular consumers of wild game actually had lower levels of lead than the rest of the population despite potentially increasing their personal lead levels via the ingestion of bullet fragments?
That would be rather ironic.
That would be rather ironic.
2damnold4this
New member
So you are saying/suggesting that those who are regular consumers of wild game actually had lower levels of lead than the rest of the population despite potentially increasing their personal lead levels via the ingestion of bullet fragments?
The CDC study compared lead levels in people in North Dakota. All of the participants in the study tended to have lower than the national average of lead. Those that ate venison harvested with lead bullets had slightly higher lead levels on average than those that didn't. None of the participants in the study had lead levels high enough for the CDC to recommend case management.
The CDC study compared lead levels in people in North Dakota. All of the participants in the study tended to have lower than the national average of lead. Those that ate venison harvested with lead bullets had slightly higher lead levels on average than those that didn't. None of the participants in the study had lead levels high enough for the CDC to recommend case management.
reloader28
New member
If you dig deep enough you find 90% of these types of "scientific" studies are funded from pro animal/ anti hunting groups. Thats a fact.
If youre going to worry about contaminated food, you better quit buying from the grocery store.That chemical and preservative indused crap is a lot worse for you than any wild game you shoot with any kind of bullet. Thats another fact.
I am sorry for the people that have gotten lead poisoning, I may join you someday, but for now I'm not going to worry about it. If I do get it, I'll probably go cast some more bullets to take my mind off it. What do I have to lose?
Its also a fact if you worry and stress about, you wont live any longer than if you would have just done it anyway. Stress is a major killer in our society these days. I'm not saying to go and eat a lead ingot every day, just dont put much faith in these so called tests. Lead poisoning is real but the government only lets you know what they want you to know. Ask any war vet about that.
The people in California face death every day. Read ANY lable on ANTHING and it causes cancer. Just reading about it can cause cancer in California. Glad I dont live there.
I'm just saying, youre going to get sick and die from something sooner or later anyway, why worry about a little old deer? I'm 38 and have been eating home butchered deer and elk for about 38 years of that (all my life). Not one of us has had a problem.
Go put a big deer steak on the grill with plenty of salt for seasoning, and wash it down with a couple beers. For dessert, get a big bowl of homemade ice-cream made from pure, fresh farm cream and lots of sugar.
I bet you'll feel better. Sounds good, I'm going to go eat.
If youre going to worry about contaminated food, you better quit buying from the grocery store.That chemical and preservative indused crap is a lot worse for you than any wild game you shoot with any kind of bullet. Thats another fact.
I am sorry for the people that have gotten lead poisoning, I may join you someday, but for now I'm not going to worry about it. If I do get it, I'll probably go cast some more bullets to take my mind off it. What do I have to lose?
Its also a fact if you worry and stress about, you wont live any longer than if you would have just done it anyway. Stress is a major killer in our society these days. I'm not saying to go and eat a lead ingot every day, just dont put much faith in these so called tests. Lead poisoning is real but the government only lets you know what they want you to know. Ask any war vet about that.
The people in California face death every day. Read ANY lable on ANTHING and it causes cancer. Just reading about it can cause cancer in California. Glad I dont live there.
I'm just saying, youre going to get sick and die from something sooner or later anyway, why worry about a little old deer? I'm 38 and have been eating home butchered deer and elk for about 38 years of that (all my life). Not one of us has had a problem.
Go put a big deer steak on the grill with plenty of salt for seasoning, and wash it down with a couple beers. For dessert, get a big bowl of homemade ice-cream made from pure, fresh farm cream and lots of sugar.
I bet you'll feel better. Sounds good, I'm going to go eat.