Are guns all that matter?
- Thread starter Heist
- Start date
Why let the state of our BoR get to the point where we need to excercise the 2 amendment is the Point Anti is trying to make. A ballot is a better tool than a bullet. Thats why being one dimensional on voting anymore just isnt going to work, both parties ar attacking the BoR. It might be painful, but maybe its time to consider going Libertarian or third party. I know the election for Governor of Texas is going to find me voting for Mr. Friedman, who on his website also supports 2 amendment rights. The Libertarians or third parties may not gain much at first but as they keep making advances the politicians in the 2 main parties might set up and start paying attention.
I say throw the bums out, The few that would have been worth keeping in Congress left voluntarily, so its time to take the Pharisees out....
I say throw the bums out, The few that would have been worth keeping in Congress left voluntarily, so its time to take the Pharisees out....
MeekAndMild
New member
Heist, you have to remember that this is a gun board and our host publishes a gun-related magazine. RKBA must remain prominent in the discussion to keep the threads on topic. Many of us are interested in other issues and post elsewhere about them. We could have some real doozies of discussions about 4A rights, but a lot of them would be closed as off topic (with good reason, because they would distract from the primary purpose of TFL).
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Meek-
L&P is game for all manner of BoR discussion. The Fourth Amendment is of particular interest, besieged as it is of late.
Rich
L&P is game for all manner of BoR discussion. The Fourth Amendment is of particular interest, besieged as it is of late.
Rich
Rich Lucibella
Staff
GoSlash-
I'm gonna say this once (more) and I want you to read it very carefully:
"L&P is game for all manner of BoR discussion"
is not equivalent to
"L&P is game for any BoR discussion"
See, "all manner" does not equal "any".
OK, OK, OK?
Now, I'm gonna say this as politely as possible:
Get off my frequency. The SNR is unbearable.
Rich
I'm gonna say this once (more) and I want you to read it very carefully:
"L&P is game for all manner of BoR discussion"
is not equivalent to
"L&P is game for any BoR discussion"
See, "all manner" does not equal "any".
OK, OK, OK?
Now, I'm gonna say this as politely as possible:
Get off my frequency. The SNR is unbearable.
Rich
hummelsander
New member
Last time I read the 2nd amendment, I kinda got the idea it was more for us being able to defend ourselves as a whole, not so much as individuals. I understand that it takes individuals to form a nation, but individually a person cannot defend himself/herself against a tyrannical government effectively.
In Washington, we are only limited to 1000 rounds in our homes without having a special arsenal license, but if everyone on the block had 1000 rounds, that would bring the odds more in the favor of the people.
We are passionate about the 2nd amendment because it unites us together to defend ourselves and our heritage against tyrannical governments. No other amendment does that...that I can think of at the moment.
In Washington, we are only limited to 1000 rounds in our homes without having a special arsenal license, but if everyone on the block had 1000 rounds, that would bring the odds more in the favor of the people.
We are passionate about the 2nd amendment because it unites us together to defend ourselves and our heritage against tyrannical governments. No other amendment does that...that I can think of at the moment.
MeekAndMild
New member
Returning to the subject at hand, yes, guns are all that matter.
Actually, I think I know exactly why Heist started this thread...Because I had been thinking about starting a similar one. We must have been reading alot of the same threads.
While I think 2A is very important, many of the other rights are equally important. (In fact, you could make the case that some are MORE important, because they directly affect more people...not just gun owners. Yes, possibly a specious argument, but still...)
Well said.
As far as "scary-ness", these others worry me alot. I look at the world (and, of course, especially life in the US) and wonder what kinda life my children are gonna have. They're in their early 20s and their lives have already been RADICALLY different than mine was to that point. They don't have the perspective I have, my having been born in the 50s, and having lived through some of the most radical changes in human (and US) history.
Sadly, they think the "status quo" is simply the way things are supposed to be, since they've not known anything different. While I've tried to "teach them different", its about impossible when they've heard otherwise throughout their lives.
Case in point: Both my sons have been stopped for minor traffic violations...And both were removed from the car, patted down, etc. Profiling? Yup. Of 2 WASPs!!!!! When I was young (and stupid) I "bent" alot of traffic laws (OK, I was a hard core street-racer)...Got stopped numerous times(although never when racing), and never, ever was subjected to any kind of search, of me, or the vehicle.
Now, my point is NOT whether they shoulda been stopped (although 1 was for broken RT side mirror, happened the night before, the other for throwing a cigarette butt out the window) or even that they received tickets for things that were kinda dumb. The cops are and need to be vigilante, and laws are laws, no matter if they're kinda dumb. And because they've been taught to respect authority, both allowed themselves to be searched, without objections (nothing to hide). My point IS, that they accepted this (being searched) as a routine thing!!!!
Another case in point:
When I bought my current house, I bought it with the specific purpose of being able to breed and train dogs. I have 10 acres of land, so there shouldn't be a problem, right? Oh, no! When we started training on my property (this included Schutzhund Sport, police dogs, drug/explosive dogs and Search-and-Rescue dogs) I was brought up on a WIDE variety of charges, because some neighbors complained that we had "dangerous dogs" on the premises(I beat all the charges in court, but it cost me $3000 in legal fees). I was also denied a State Purebred license (that would allow me to have more than 3 dogs). Note that I DO NOT sell any dogs I breed, I've donated them to the State Police, as well as S&R groups. ALL of my friends (and most only have smaller amounts of property) in the surrounding towns have Purebred licenses, with no problem. AND, I just got a "nasty-gram" from the town, because my son has an un-licensed vehicle (that is for sale) on my property. Apparently, its illegal to have an unlicensed vehicle ANYWHERE on your property (except in a garage or other permanent structure) in this town.
My point here is that, I pay taxes on a large property, that I cannot use, even though I'm not causing any harm or annoyance to anyone. Yet my neighbor across the street runs a business outa his house(he has some land , too), trucks coming and going all the time. Certainly I could fight it and win, but the lawyer(s) say it will cost me serious $$$$$$$$$. Why should I have to spend money, in order to use my property as I like, as long as I'm not bothering anyone???
OK, back on topic: We continue to see an erosion of ALL of our rights, at all levels of government. 2A is just one of them, and if we hope to keep that one alive, we cannot overlook ANY of the other rights we are supposed to enjoy as citizens of a free country. Any one that fights for 2A, but allows the other rights to fall by the wayside, is a hypocrite, IMHO.
While I think 2A is very important, many of the other rights are equally important. (In fact, you could make the case that some are MORE important, because they directly affect more people...not just gun owners. Yes, possibly a specious argument, but still...)
Well said.
As far as "scary-ness", these others worry me alot. I look at the world (and, of course, especially life in the US) and wonder what kinda life my children are gonna have. They're in their early 20s and their lives have already been RADICALLY different than mine was to that point. They don't have the perspective I have, my having been born in the 50s, and having lived through some of the most radical changes in human (and US) history.
Sadly, they think the "status quo" is simply the way things are supposed to be, since they've not known anything different. While I've tried to "teach them different", its about impossible when they've heard otherwise throughout their lives.
Case in point: Both my sons have been stopped for minor traffic violations...And both were removed from the car, patted down, etc. Profiling? Yup. Of 2 WASPs!!!!! When I was young (and stupid) I "bent" alot of traffic laws (OK, I was a hard core street-racer)...Got stopped numerous times(although never when racing), and never, ever was subjected to any kind of search, of me, or the vehicle.
Now, my point is NOT whether they shoulda been stopped (although 1 was for broken RT side mirror, happened the night before, the other for throwing a cigarette butt out the window) or even that they received tickets for things that were kinda dumb. The cops are and need to be vigilante, and laws are laws, no matter if they're kinda dumb. And because they've been taught to respect authority, both allowed themselves to be searched, without objections (nothing to hide). My point IS, that they accepted this (being searched) as a routine thing!!!!
Another case in point:
When I bought my current house, I bought it with the specific purpose of being able to breed and train dogs. I have 10 acres of land, so there shouldn't be a problem, right? Oh, no! When we started training on my property (this included Schutzhund Sport, police dogs, drug/explosive dogs and Search-and-Rescue dogs) I was brought up on a WIDE variety of charges, because some neighbors complained that we had "dangerous dogs" on the premises(I beat all the charges in court, but it cost me $3000 in legal fees). I was also denied a State Purebred license (that would allow me to have more than 3 dogs). Note that I DO NOT sell any dogs I breed, I've donated them to the State Police, as well as S&R groups. ALL of my friends (and most only have smaller amounts of property) in the surrounding towns have Purebred licenses, with no problem. AND, I just got a "nasty-gram" from the town, because my son has an un-licensed vehicle (that is for sale) on my property. Apparently, its illegal to have an unlicensed vehicle ANYWHERE on your property (except in a garage or other permanent structure) in this town.
My point here is that, I pay taxes on a large property, that I cannot use, even though I'm not causing any harm or annoyance to anyone. Yet my neighbor across the street runs a business outa his house(he has some land , too), trucks coming and going all the time. Certainly I could fight it and win, but the lawyer(s) say it will cost me serious $$$$$$$$$. Why should I have to spend money, in order to use my property as I like, as long as I'm not bothering anyone???
OK, back on topic: We continue to see an erosion of ALL of our rights, at all levels of government. 2A is just one of them, and if we hope to keep that one alive, we cannot overlook ANY of the other rights we are supposed to enjoy as citizens of a free country. Any one that fights for 2A, but allows the other rights to fall by the wayside, is a hypocrite, IMHO.
AirForceShooter
New member
Are guns all that matter? NO.
But, theres always a but, if you look at the anti-gun people thay all have a similiar trait. They don't trust their fellow citizens with any power or choice.
So their way of governing tends to be quite oppressive and they love the "Nanny" state.
So it's not the gun issue, it's the crushing arms of a government that wants to help me.
AFS
But, theres always a but, if you look at the anti-gun people thay all have a similiar trait. They don't trust their fellow citizens with any power or choice.
So their way of governing tends to be quite oppressive and they love the "Nanny" state.
So it's not the gun issue, it's the crushing arms of a government that wants to help me.
AFS
AFS,
As you correctly point out, there's always a "but".
*But* many of the pro-gun types also favor a nanny government that seeks to restrict our freedoms of personal choice and responsibility for the good of the society itself. I'm speakin' of social conservatives.
The crushing arms of a government that wants to control me.
As you correctly point out, there's always a "but".
*But* many of the pro-gun types also favor a nanny government that seeks to restrict our freedoms of personal choice and responsibility for the good of the society itself. I'm speakin' of social conservatives.
The crushing arms of a government that wants to control me.