Are "fashionable" guns a danger?

The purpose of these guns is PROTECTING PEOPLE, not killing people.
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Guns don't protect people. They are designed to be used to inflict the maximum amount of damage possible to living beings given certain constraints such as size, control, speed, legality, etc. If they were designed to protect people, you would stretch them out and pin them onto your torso.

It's hard to argue that handguns in calibers such as 44 magnum, 50ae, even 10mm and .357 aren't designed to kill. For that matter, who were the British protecting with their guns when they went to war with the American Colonists?

The truth is that a firearm is the most efficient method of precisely dispensing with a human life. I'm not sure why we would try to avoid this truth?
 
Well, I can see how my example could be misinterpreted to be "gender bias" (a media buzzword if ever there was one). Seeing only one example, and rushing to a conclusion, fails to give me the benefit of any doubt and rushes to judge ME rather than perhaps asking a legit question before rushing to that judgment. Luckily I don't care what strangers on the Internet do or don't falsely think about me.

The whole point is, does having a weapon that's been doctored up to look like a fashion object (heck, ivory grips, a fashion accessory for men, whatever) trivialize the weapon such that people would treat it more flippantly. Maybe, maybe not. I could see that for some, it would. Making a weapon look like child's plaything seems like a bad idea, but that's only my opinion. But what would I know? I'm just a mysoginst with gender bias. Anyone care to drop the word "privilege" into the discussion while we're at it? I'll go watch MSNBC now to stock up on my lingo :mad:

Was a mistake to even ask the question.
 
If you paint the muzzle red, they look like a child's toy. :rolleyes:

I should have said that the USE of these guns is protecting people.
The PURPOSE of a gun, regardless of caliber- is to send a projectile down range.
What the gun is used for depends on the intent of the user. Is a target gun designed to kill? Is a hunting gun designed to kill people? Can a pocket pistol be used for recreation? Do people collect guns and never shoot them?

If you think a gun is only designed for killing humans, you REALLY have a problem!
 
We've had kids shot by police holding a realistic toy gun. Now if we make guns that look like toys - faced with a kid with a multi-colored something - do we place the burden on a cop to figure it out in real time.

I don't think we need such a possibility for marketing.
 
What Glenn said. We don't need to put more burden on the police with real guns looking like toys. It's bad enough that the toy guns are realistic looking, now the police have to treat the colorful toy guns as real guns.

fl_rich also made a very good point. Kids WILL think it's a toy. They WILL have access to guns because of careless parents.

There's no denying that. We have to stop making the toy guns look real and the real guns to look like toys.
 
What Glenn said. We don't need to put more burden on the police with real guns looking like toys. It's bad enough that the toy guns are realistic looking, now the police have to treat the colorful toy guns as real guns.

fl_rich also made a very good point. Kids WILL think it's a toy. They WILL have access to guns because of careless parents.

There's no denying that. We have to stop making the toy guns look real and the real guns to look like toys.
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I agree. Careful, now, or someone will flag you for age bias against children. :rolleyes:
 
I'm in my mid 60s and what I say will surprise you. When we were kids we had realistic toy guns and carried real 22s and shotguns and nobody batted an eye, not even the cops.

What changed?
 
Officer survival training and the risks of the world they face. I think the gun carrying behavior among young people in poorer neighborhoods has increased with the general rise in gun crime in those areas that we saw due to the drug wars.

Criminologists have found that lots of young folks in these places carry guns for protection. That wasn't the case when we had more nuclear families, etc.

So with young kids with guns - can an officer trust that that realistic semi toy is a toy? Interesting tactical question.

I had a realistic Colt SAA - if I ran around my neighborhood with it in a cowboy rig - I probably wasn't a crazed desperado. A young kid with a semi in his pants?
Gang members sometimes give the young kids the guns to carry because if they get busted, the juvenile justice system is lenient with them.

It is the case now that gun crime is decreasing in general and even in some big cities with specific programs that target the at risk gun users. However, in some cities - that has not been implemented or tried.

In today's world a parent is negligent if they let their kid out to play with a replica. Not in my day but mine was not a crime ridden neighborhood.
 
Times are not what they used to be.
I recall,as a young kid living on post Camp Wolters,Texas, firing my Johnson Smith Novelty catalogue Bangsite Carbide Cannon.
I plead "Dumb Kid" .The MP's advised me rather sternly that was a bad idea.
No guns were drawn.
One factor,at least in the 60's and 70's,toy guns were an expectation.The meaning of a kid holding something that looked like a gun was "Kid with a toy gun" Everybody played Combat,cops and robbers,or cowboys.

The way things are today is different.Without scaring kids into being anti-cop,I'd make sure the kids understood the hazards cops face,and even a six year old CAN understand "don't look like you have a gun".

While I can understand the concern of guns that look like kid toys,that ignores an absolute.There is no wiggle room about leaving the gun where a kid can get it.It does not matter if its black ,desert tan,or pink polka dot.Don't leave it on the table. The color of the gun is slim protection for your kids life."Well,its a black gun so the kids will..." Really?

I do not pretend to understand all the nuance of thought and feeling that goes on with women.Pink S+W ladysmiths have been around for 50 years.
So long as being armed is not trivialized, if pink or other colors of guns make a woman more comfortable with being armed,or its just "more fun" I am good with it.So long as skills and training go with it,I'm happy to have more dangerous women.

As much as AR's are "Barbie Dolls for Men" ,Nickel,polished stainless ,cerracoat,engraving....???? I hope this is not "Any testosterone color is OK"

I may give my Grandaughter a pink .22 some day.Just to say "This is especially for you"
 
Kids should not have access to guns-NO MATTER WHAT COLOR THE GUNS ARE!
Got it?

Colored guns have been made since the 1960s, and they haven't made cops' lives any more difficult. As much as I support LE, this is one they will just have to deal with-and it's a non-issue.
 
Kids certainly *should* not have access to guns, period. Statistics say they do (and the only statistics are the ones that become tragedies).

Responsible people keep guns securely locked away from children. Not all people are responsible.

I've taught all my boys (ages 9 down to 4) the basic rules of "Stop, Don't Touch, Leave, Tell an Adult." I will drill them on this randomly. I have taken them to the gun counter at a sporting goods store and shown them what's behind the case. And I swear, the first time, my 5 year old laughed and pointed at a purple one and said "why's there a toy in there daddy?" I have told them that if they ever see anything that even resembles a gun, anywhere, to follow those rules. Maybe that's overboard, but kids are all black-and-white and nuance or exceptions to rules don't ever work out well. I know my oldest gets it (doesn't mean he'll follow it!) but for the little ones? I suspect and pray they'd leave something alone that looked like a gun, but if they saw a pink gun with Hello Kitty on it? Would they really follow the rules?

I can control my own home, and know the kids will never encounter a gun. I know my parents control their home. But it's all a crapshoot when they go to a friend's house, etc.

The best defense is to teach them early and well, I think. I won't let them keep their fingers on the triggers of their Nerf guns :D It annoys the hell out of them, but eventually they catch on!
 
Of the tragic statistics about kids being killed by guns they found,would you hazard a guess about the percentage of them that were pink?

If we take every tragedy in the USA involving a pink gun,what percentage of those would have occurred if the gun had been black?

I do understand your point. And excuse me if I give an eyeroll to the argument "If only one life is saved..."

IF we care at all about accidental child gun deaths,1) Secure the gun. I'll give 2)Eddie Eagle or equivalent training.
3) Be aware of where your kid is and who they are with.

Those are where to focus.The responsibility is 100% on the person who left the firearm accessible.NOT 90% on the firearm owner and 10% on the mfgr of the pink gun.

"If only my aunt hd not bought the pink anodized Ladysmith in 1964 your child would be alive""

No.It was not the aunt.It was not S+W. Wear it or lock it up. Period.

Not to make light of the subject,and,right now I can't source the stats,but I have seen Fed stats that reveal more young kids are accidently killed by 5 gallon buckets than by firearms.Toddlers fall in and drown. Swimming pools kill kids .Bathtubs,too. Be vigilant.
 
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The whole point is, does having a weapon that's been doctored up to look like a fashion object (heck, ivory grips, a fashion accessory for men, whatever) trivialize the weapon such that people would treat it more flippantly. Maybe, maybe not. I could see that for some, it would. Making a weapon look like child's plaything seems like a bad idea, but that's only my opinion.
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I don't think Ohio guys a misogynist. He asked a question that deserves being answered. It's way to common these days to read into people's questions something other than what they said or are trying to say. He clarified things in his above post. So...

You can fall into a trap of thinking that how the weapon looks makes us behave towards it in a certain way. Lack of knowledge and respect for what guns can do contribute to mishandling and playing with guns. People who don't know how to treat guns as potentially dangerous weapons will do so no matter what the gun looks like. The mall ninja who believes that owning a tricked out AR and the latest tacticool gear makes him a combat ready warrior is as likely to be unserious about weapons as the millennial with a candy apple red Sig. Maybe more so.

The more common problem, I think, is making a fetish of weapons. Coming to believe that owning a certain gun or blade makes us, or enables us, to be deadly, romantic and mysterious, more serious or rough and ready than others. Like the rings in the Tolkein trilogy that the gun or knife confers on us powers. Owning a wrench doesn't make you a mechanic. Owning a gun, ugly or beautiful, doesn't make you anything other than a gun owner.

Owning an Audi doesn't make a person a responsible driver. Owning a red Mustang convertible doesn't make you a reckless driver either.

Folks have been decorating weapons for centuries before there were firearms. We'll be doing that for centuries more.

tipoc
 
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I don't think I have a problem with colored guns. But I also think that kids have less resistance to the attraction of brightly colored and shiny objects, regardless of shape (gun recognition). So it may be that this adds more danger. Still, it's the adult's responsibility to safeguard the child by controlling the guns. But not all kids will get the benefit of careful parents/grandparents/environments. What about another aspect that plays into the toys, colored guns, safety issue.

The best defense is to teach them early and well, I think. I won't let them keep their fingers on the triggers of their Nerf guns
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One factor,at least in the 60's and 70's,toy guns were an expectation.The meaning of a kid holding something that looked like a gun was "Kid with a toy gun" Everybody played Combat,cops and robbers,or cowboys
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Then you remember cap guns and cap guns shooting plastic "bullets"?
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I remember that in the 50's playing with cap guns, we didn't keep our fingers off the triggers, and pointed them directly at our playmates (yes, you did too). But even that was safer than dodging the wooden arrows from the Indians (there were always opposing sides). For some of us this carried over into BB guns with fights where it was considered bad form to aim for the head, but legs covered with blue jeans, no problem. Some of us still have the scars. Mind you I'm not condoning this, just saying that it happened. So...few of us got any real gun training until Dad decided that we were old enough to shoot his gun. An age thing, rite of passage.

While I think it's admirable to teach a young child gun handling with his Nerf gun, I wonder how much really sticks with them. Depends on the age and child I think. I just gave two grand kids( 6 & 8 ) Nerf guns. There are projectiles all over the house. The part they like best is shooting each other. I don't think I could just get them to shoot at a target for very long. Reminds me of me.

I have tried to teach them the difference between a real gun and a play gun. Still, I have a conflict between them learning to like guns from handling their Nerf guns (good), and them needing to unlearn bad handling (bad) for real guns.

But I know their father who is a hunter, will soon teach them, as he has his older kids.
 
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Frankly, I think the Spectrum looks pretty nifty. When they come out, I may find myself buying one. That extended magazine looks like it would do a decent job of addressing the main issue I have with most pocket pistols - they are too dang small for my big hands. As for the colors, it isn't just women and kids that find them attractive. I think the black and purple combo is pretty sharp, and the white frame with black inserts and black slide appeals to the Sci-Fi geek in me. It makes me think of a storm trooper.

As for added danger because of the colors, I just don't see it. Kids who haven't received the correct training (and some who have) are going to pick up guns if they find them. They will likely play with them, and that is how tragedies happen. It is up to the owner of the gun, regardless of what color it is, to keep it out of the kid's hands. This is not an issue of design. It is an issue of responsibility, plain and simple.

The issue of police having a harder time determining whether a gun is real or a toy is a bit stickier, in my opinion. That is a split second decision that can have devestating consequences, both for the kid, the kid's family, and the officer. In today's society, much more so than when I was a kid, it is important to make sure the toys don't look real, and vice versa. Having said that, though, I really don't think the Spectrum crosses that line. Even with the more outlandish color combos, it still looks like a real gun. Also, when it is in the hands, the majority of the accent color is going to be covered, leaving only the slide fully visible, and the slide looks no more toylike to me than any other pocket pistol.
 
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