Are any LEO using the Walther P99/SW99?

[panzerfuehrer]

Hi Mike - nice to see you here. Happy Holidays!

 

[tfljlc]

California, Orange County Sheriff's Department - now issues SW99 in .40S&W. I talked to a Deputy who has one and is very happy. He used to use a 5906.

 

[rock_jock]

but it was rejected for liability concerns over the way the trigger is manipulated to set the action to single

Question: who in the world decides that any given feature of a gun, especially the triggers, is a liability? Is it the brass in your dept, or legal counsel? If the latter, what do they base their decision on - advice of others, case law? I ask because it seems some of the police departments I read about on TFL seem to make decisions with regard to firearms approvals that have no basis in fact, i.e., they make them on hearsay, or paranoia concerning lawsuits they read about that do not in fact exist or were not successful. I know police shootings get scrutinized with a fine tooth comb, but denying a certain model gun just because a trigger is ever so slightly different or has a 1 lb. lighter pull smacks of indifference to the needs of the officers, and as a taxpayer, kind of ticks me off.

 

[yorec]

Nope, it was the firearms instructors. Range rule - keep your finger out of the trigger guard until your sights are on target and you have decided to fire. IIRC, Setting the trigger to the lighter single action pull required moving the trigger by manipulating it in conjunction with pushing the button on the back of the slide (something like a two stage trigger, someone else will have a better description than I) - not a good thing to do under stress and have something go wrong or misjudge the amount of preassure being applied when shortening the trigger stroke.

"Well Sarge, I was setting the trigger on my gun to the lighter single action mode so I could take a more acurate head shot at the hostage taker and the gun just went off. I must have had the sights a little low because I was still preparing to take the shot... I'm sure sorry about the hostage..." Just something we didn't want to have to deal with as a department.

The SW 99 probably would have gotten the nod had it been in a good DAO configuration - everyone liked the gun and at least one instructor bought one for personal use.

 

[rock_jock]

Weel, that sounds like a legitimate reason. I am not familiar with the SW or Walther versions of this gun but it seems like this is something the manufacturers should have foreseen.

 

[Extremist]

Have to jump in here on this disinformation:

IIRC, Setting the trigger to the lighter single action pull required moving the trigger by manipulating it in conjunction with pushing the button on the back of the slide (something like a two stage trigger, someone else will have a better description than I) - not a good thing to do under stress and have something go wrong or misjudge the amount of preassure being applied when shortening the trigger stroke.

Nope, that's not how you do it and the button on the slide is the DECOCKER, that's all.

There are three trigger modes on the standard P99:
1) Standard Double Action (about 11-12 lbs). This is how the trigger is set if you have pressed the decocker.
2) Single action-trigger forward (about 1-2 lbs to move the trigger to the rear postion, and then about 5-7 lbs to actually release the striker). This is how the trigger gets set if you have just freshly charged the P99 by inserting a full magazine and released the slide or racked the slide. The cocking indicator is displayed at the end of the slide
3) Single action-trigger back (5-7lbs) - To get to this mode, you have to charge the P99 AND slightly press the trigger to move it to the rear. It's kind of like a "set" trigger. You will feel a click when the trigger is set to the rear. Then the trigger is just like in Single-action mode.

That being said, once you pull the trigger in any of the modes, the next shot trigger position is single-action, trigger back. And stays that way until you decock.

Normal mode of carry is decocked. When I am target shooting, I always set the trigger to the back before firing. Confusing? Maybe a little, but, it works.

If you don't like this mode of trigger, Walther also offers the QA trigger model which is pretty much just like a Glock or Steyr M/S Series pistol.

Regards,
James

 

[P99]

Walther actually make a DAO version of the P99, called the P990. They also make the P99QA, which has a trigger similar to Glocks.

P99

 

[Gorthaur]

Anybody that can't manage to put the P99 in trigger-back mode without an ND shouldn't be carrying a firearm.

 

[yorec]

3) Single action-trigger back (5-7lbs) - To get to this mode, you have to charge the P99 AND slightly press the trigger to move it to the rear. It's kind of like a "set" trigger. You will feel a click when the trigger is set to the rear. Then the trigger is just like in Single-action mode.

Ah, yes, that's it! Thanks, Extremist, my bad for the mis-info, but I knew someone would correct me if I misremembered how it all worked! (I wasn't the instructor who bought one - but I wish I had!) It was this moving the trigger to the rear by pressing the trigger that put the 99 on the outs. If we had the QA style that you mentioned for the testing, there is a good possiblility that the 99 would be the gun I would carry now...

That said,

Anybody that can't manage to put the P99 in trigger-back mode without an ND shouldn't be carrying a firearm.

Gorthaur, your ignorance of stressful life and death situations and thier relationship to the fight or flight mechanics of the body when related to making of law enforcement policies are showing...

 

[Gorthaur]

Perhaps, but you've never put a P99 into trigger-back mode, or shot one in any mode.

 

[P99]

yorec,

I don't understand your reasoning behind the P99 not being up to the task under stressful situations. The regular P99 was made with that in mind. The first long pull DA mode is much better for preventing an AD in a stressfull situation, than the trigger of a Glock or P99QA. And the other mode of the P99 with the trigger forward but striker cocked is still better, because even though the pull is lighter now, you still have a long pull until it clicks into SA mode. So I agree with Gothaur on this one. The regular P99 is a great gun for high stress situations.

P99

 

[hube1236]

I agree with Gorthaur,

Even after it clicks, there is a change in resistance, from free float to that 3-7 (mine feels lighter than 5) plus you need to take it bake to the break, which is waaay back there.

Carry with one in the tube, decocked and you never have to worry about it; life or death.

 

[Gorthaur]

On the other hand, transitioning from DA to SA by recocking under stress can certainly be problematic, but you'd get a jam, not an ND. There was a holster designed to do the recock by pressing down on the pistol before drawing, but it apparently wasn't very reliable.