Are .22 magnums any good for self defense?

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In defense of the .22 WMR as a self-defense round, can anyone think of anything as small and light as a North American that equals or exceeds its stopping power? I was going to say "stopping power AND ammo capacity", to keep out large-caliber derringers, but now that I think about it those are almost certainly less concealable than, say, an NAA Pug or Mini (not sure about the Black Widow).

The only competitors I know are a double-action oddball from Casull Arms which I lusted after for a time (never found any on the market) and Charter's Dixie Derringer.
 
If the answer is "NO", then it may be "better than nothing" and used as a last-ditch backup, but is not a good choice for SD. This will include .380, .32 (and anything smaller).
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What if they once used to be? Or what about in other countries? Because then the answer in regards to .380 and .32 auto would be "yes."
 
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If the answer is "NO", then it may be "better than nothing" and used as a last-ditch backup, but is not a good choice for SD. This will include .380, .32 (and anything smaller).

What if they once used to be? Or what about in other countries? Because then the answer in regards to .380 and .32 auto would be "yes."
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And to be historically correct, .32 S&W Long and nothing but a truncheon and whistle would fit into the "police use" category as well. Blindly following the lead of the police isn't always the best course of action.
 
Blindly following the lead of the police isn't always the best course of action.
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Especially if it the police of a basically unarmed country...50 years ago.
Can we get the discussion back into the current century, in the United States?
 
What is left to say exactly? The .22 magnum isn't the most effective round, but it's far better than nothing and can work for those who for whatever reason can't or won't carry a larger caliber handgun.
 
Yes, of course they are. For some people, depending on circumstances, a 22 magnum handgun may be the very best option for self-defense.

That's not to say that it should be the first option most folks should consider, most would probably be better served by a centerfire in the typical service pistol caliber class.
 
Yes, shot placement is of the utmost importance.
But if caliber didn't matter then every cop and soldier around the world would be carrying .22 caliber pistols.

The purpose of a self defense handgun is to QUICKLY STOP a threat
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Right on peacefulgary Enough said.
 
Let's face it, a .22lr isn't as bad for SD as some would leave you to believe and a .45 or .357 is far from foolproof or 100%. So yes the .22M falls somewhere in between. The main thing you have to ask yourself as to it potential effectiveness is "do you think a .22lr rifle is good enough for defence?". If your answer is no then a .22M handgun isn't either.

Personally except in the NAA mini's I don't like the .22M in any handgun. You can step up to a .38 with minimal increase in ammo cost and a .38 is better across the board.

LK
 
My theory is the presence of any firearm is a huge deterrent to an attack. My carry guns are .22LR.
I have had to display a firearm three times in my life to ward off potential attacks. The display of a .22LR single action revolver turned them away each time.
I know all the arguments about heavier calibers.
Still, I believe the main advantage of a concealed firearm is it's concealability. Agreed, there are some newer pocket sized .380s and even 9mm. Those are very worth considering.
 
Comparing the .22 mag to the .22 lr is apples/oranges. The lr shoots a soft lead bullet at much lower velocities than the mag shoots it's jacketed bullets (or fmj's)
Speaking of failures to fire? The only firearm I ever had in .22 mag was a Single Six, so I obviously have had somewhat limited experience with it, but I NEVER had a failure to fire. It always went bang when I expected it to.
I have, however, had several failures to fire with centerfire ammunition of one kind or another... some were reloads, but some were commercial stuff. Why do makers of quality autoloaders feel that "second strike" capability is a benefit, if centerfire ammo never fails to fire? Or, proponents of revolver carry inevitably mention that "if one fails to fire, you simply pull the trigger again" ?
The only rimfire failures I've had were with .22 lr, and it invariably was cheap stuff that had rolled around in the pickup for a while before I got around to shooting it. Premium .22 lr ammo has never failed to fire for me.
Everyone should decide for themselves what they can "live with" for self defense, but I wouldn't feel unarmed if I was carrying a good .22 mag pistol or revolver. I'd be comfortable with it, especially if I could control it the way I can control my MkII .22 lr pistol. 10 rounds either center chest or head should at least discourage an attacker long enough for me and mine to make our getaway.
 
You know...I just gotta love it when people don't process what they read or just plain out don't read the whole post so let me get back to some comments.:)

Why stop at the .22 Mag? Why not go for the .22 CB short?

Because you are betting your life, and the lives of your loved ones.

As for your neighborhood, is there some magic that keeps real bad guys out of your neighborhood? Please, please share it with us.
We just had a bloody double murder in a patrolled, gated area, very high rent. The two mopes used knives to kill a mid thirties man & woman, so they could steal their high end cars - a Hummer and a sports car.

And a friend went back to his 'nice' neighborhood in CA (where only the good guys have guns), and witnessed a murder 2 doors down from his house.

So, you have a duty to share this magic with the rest of us!
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First off I think anytime you get into a self defense situation you are putting a big gamble on whatever you have. You better hope you can shoot faster and truer than the assailant. Their was a cop that was killed with a .22 mag....ONE SHOT TOO! Have you ever even shot a .22 mag handgun? Their is no recoil. I carry a .22 mag around my neighborhood in a DA revolver because I mostly deal with loose dogs, stupid teenagers that havent a clue, and I want something light and I just happen to prefer revolvers myself. I don't live in CA or any city, I live in a suburban area where the crime rate is very low. I carry a knife, revolver, mace, and baton. I think I have things in order here. And were those citizens who were killed armed? A .22 mag revolver would have stopped those men in their tracks with shot placement. Please go look up the .22 fatality rate.....please do....:rolleyes:


If caliber doesn't matter then why bother with the excessive noise and flash and recoil of the .22 magnum.
If caliber does not matter then why not .22 Short?
It would be even easier to shoot for the elderly, the recoil sensitive....the suicidal...
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Outside during the day flash is not going to be a big deal and lets face it. When you are shooting a bigger caliber like most of us such as 9mm, .357, .45, etc you are going to have more noise than the .22 mag. Comparing a standard to a magnum round is all I was doing. .38 to .357, or .22 Lr. to .22 mag.

Ask yourself this question:

Does any LEA issue and carry (whatever caliber)?

If the answer is "YES", then it is probably a reasonably good SD round. This will include .45 acp, 10mm, .40 S&W, 9mm and .357 Mag, .38 Spl (and anything larger).

If the answer is "NO", then it may be "better than nothing" and used as a last-ditch backup, but is not a good choice for SD. This will include .380, .32 (and anything smaller).

If you take your cues from what the guys who get paid to put their lives in the balance...it becomes pretty simple.

Do I need to wrap this all up for you, or can you read between the lines?
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Do LEO age in their late 60's to mid 80's? I didnt think so. Not everyone can be a LEO, and many folks want a gun but dont have time to shoot it a lot and are recoil sensitive. To those folks the .22 mag in a revolver is a great choice. Simple to operate, packs some punch (MidwayUSA rates them next to .38 special in "Knock Down Power") so I see no problems with what I said. :D
 
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Short answer to "any"; yes.

My answer to the concept is hell no! You can use it, I'll pick something more effective.

If someone is doing something that is so threatening to me that I reasonable believe I have no other alternative but to use deadly force; I want them to stop doing it immediately.

There is a reason why no law enforcement agency that I know of uses .22 mags.

There is a reason why in most states it is illegal to deer hunt with a .22 mag.

The .22 mag was designed for heavier small game Raccoons, Foxes, Coyotes, Wood Chucks etc at medium to short ranges (the poor man's varmint gun).

If you want to trust your life on a cartridge designed to harvest an 18 to 20 pound raccoon when confronted by a 210 lb street thug with violent intent, good luck to you.

You go ahead, I'll pick something better.

"Better than Nothing" would make an fitting tombstone inscription.
 
For curiosity and away from the sloganeering - when has this round's failure led to the death of a user in a crime as compared to other rounds?

Otherwise - the caliber folks are spouting hot air.

Different issue than whether you should carry something else.
 
What's with the "flash mob" fears?
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I thought they were like the folks on TV in the AT&T commercial that a bunch whip off there overcoats and do a dance in public.
back to the 22 magnum for SD. For the life of me I cannot find the article that I posted here a few years back that refereed to the 22 magnum as a wicked round. Not my words the writers words. They do a lot of damage and personally I would hesitate to carry one for SD.

With some research I was able to find my post and here is the link for those who wish to gain some insight.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2151315&postcount=24
 
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Glenn, the record has plenty of folks who were not stopped by larger calibers - see the thread on the FBI Miami shootout for two examples, one a bad guy hit with a 9mm, the other an FBI agent shot with a .223. After the bad guy was hit with a non-survivalble shot, he killed 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 or 6 more.
After the FBI agent was hit, he killed the two bad guys.

There have been failures to stop with all calibers, including but not limited to:
5.56, 7.62X39, and in one case from decades ago in NYC, 10+ .38spl (RNL in those days) AND 3 12 guage slugs. That bad guy ran 2-3 blocks before consenting to stop and die.

In fact, not too long ago, one of our troops survived a hit with an RPG that failed to detonate. It was removed in an operation. What is the diameter of an RPG? 66 mm ?

Why should we think the .22 Mag is superior to these well documented rounds?

If the OP wants to carry a .22 Mag, that is, as we say, his bussiness. But he seems to be trying to convince the rest of us that it is a superior - or at least suitable, round. In that, I think he has failed.

BTW, what will happen when some of the 'misguided youth" in his neighboorhood get more aggresive toward him? And, the last I heard, bad guys now own (or steal) cars, so they can even come into his ""safe haven"".

I certianly hope the OP never has to find out the wisdom of his choice of a defensive handgun caliber.
 
My point is subtle, I grant you.

It is just to point out that the dichotomous view is silly. Folks who say that carrying such will guarantee a tombstone or it has no use at all - are just ridiculous. TFL is a more literate forum

I want to point out that the blanket statement doesn't contribute much.

Those who say it is superior have little to go on also.

The conclusions are:

1. Having a gun is better than not. The deterrence works most of the time.

2. Shooting someone with a 22 mag or LR has such a high probability of stopping the crime (didn't say kill him) that to deny carrying such and saying carrying nothing is better - is stupid.

3. Yes, if you can - modern 9s, 38s/357s, 40s, 44s, 45s, and probably 327s are preferred.

4. If I get to the point that I can't handle those - arthritis or whatever, and I can only use my Browning Buckmark - I will. I twill probably win the fight as compared to the geezer with the frying pan attack mode.

It's that simple. Yep, all handgun rounds are not optimal but unlike some I probably can't walk around with an M4 and Kelver total body suit.

So folks, drop the absolutes and cutesy tombstone silliness. That was my point.
 
Glenn, there are two reasons I choose to disagree with those who pick sub-marginal rounds:

1. They have a tendancy to behave differently, because they think they are armed. Thus they may tend to involve themselves in issues (conflicts) they would avoid if they were unarmed.

2. I have taught several women with serious joint problems (including one with deformed hands) how to shoot. All of them found they could handle a steel J frame with rubber grips and loaded with .38 Spl wadcutters. Not an ideal load, but I think a 148g soft lead bullet is far superior to a 40 grain .22 bullet.

Of course, your results may vary. But since parts of this country are still free, you are welcome to carry the gun and caliber of your choice.
 
Of course, the country is free - what does that have to do with what I said. Another throwaway cliched response.

1. They have a tendancy to behave differently, because they think they are armed. Thus they may tend to involve themselves in issues (conflicts) they would avoid if they were unarmed.
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Anyone who engages in a conflict that they can avoid because they have a 9mm over a 22 mag is an idiot. So what does that have to do with it?

I wouldn't enter a conflict I can avoid if armed with a frying pan, 22 mag or my 1911.

I'm afraid you are making my point of missing the crux of the matter.

BTW, why did SW start with a 22 short revolver? If they only had the Internet then - why we wouldn't have SW revolvers at all!

So the point is that the 22 mag fans charge into intensive gun fights along with the charging wadcutter warriors? Huh?
 
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