AR-15 or STG-58?

V

vanfunk

New member
Okay, bear with me here people. I've narrowed my next purchase down to either a Bushmaster M4 or a DSA STG-58. This purchase will be primarily driven by "pride of ownership" and range merriment. It may serve as a kind of "cabin defense" rifle when I'm on vacation in Maine, but that need is secondary. I'm not concerned at this time in the alleged or apparent ballistic advantages/disadvantages between the 5.56 and the 7.62. I just want to be happy! For those of you who own both AR's and FAL's, which do you like better (that's a loaded one)? Feel free to be objective, subjective, opinionated, even emotional. I really need this hashed out. Thank you!
vanfunk
 
Hi Vanfunk,
I have a DSA SA-58 Carbine and a Bushmaster Shorty, If I were to choose between the two it would be the DSA without a doubt. I love the authority of the .308 round, superb accuracy, easy to clean, reliable, CHEEP magazines and every one wants to shoot it. So buy lots of ammo.
Don't get me wrong I think the Bushmaster is a fine weapon, it just doesn't do it for me like the DSA.


[Edited by salvo on 05-22-2001 at 09:19 PM]
 
Well, if you are strictly going to be shooting this at the range, I can tell you the AR will be more accurate and the ammo will be cheaper. OTOH, the STG58 will be easier to clean. For defense either one should do fine. Were I you, I would get the STG58, simply because I feel that the cheap FAL mags will be drying up sometime in the near future, so it would make sense to grab them, and a gun they fit, now.
 
Well...I dunno. My PERSONAL opinion is that the main reason for the .223 round being the round of choice for militaries world-wide is controllability under full-auto fire. I assume your rifle will not be capable of full-auto fire (ahem), so the main advantage of the AR is moot. My opinion, flame away.

The other advantage of the AR is accuracy: the rifle is probably inherently more accuarate (debatable), and is more receptive to be tweaked for hyperaccuracy.

The third advantage for the AR is weight. Its light. I own a FAL. Its a pig. (note: this is not a criticism, just a statement of fact. Its heavy)

If you have no need for hyperaccuracy and weight is not a problem, FAL all the way, baby. Its round is more powerful. Its easy to clean. Reliable. Fun. Mean as hell.

JMNSHO,
Mike
 
I'd go AR15 out of versatility, UPPERS GALORE!


I've got 3 AR15s and an AR10.

One AR15 is a "shorty AK" bushmaster with the 14.5 inch barrel and it's set up mainly for reflex type shooting for 3 gun matches.

One AR15 is set up in a 20inch A3 configuration and is just your basic blaster AR15 but it does see use in action rifle matches where I've got a bit more range and better sight radius with the 20inch as opposed to the 14.5.

The other AR15 and the favorite of the bunch is my 24 inch heavy barreled custom gun I use for squirrel shooting, 6.5-20 Leupold Long Range scope sits atop the flattop receiver and the gun consistently holds less than 1MOA accuracy for 10 shots.



I could have gotten just one lower receiver and switched the 3 upper assemblies between one lower but living in Ca. and the relative low price of the lowers was reason enough for me to make them into complete rifles, more was definitely better in this case.


With what I've got planned I'm still gonna be short lowers some day soon, I've got 3-4 more AR15 uppers planned for the future. I'm really liking the sound of a 50AE upper from Tromix, I also want to get a 16 inch barreled very light weight yet accurate upper, plus I'd like to get something like a 6mmPPC or a 6x45mm or a 17Rem upper just for the fun of it.


I've also got 2 more uppers planned for the AR10 but that's not an AR15, and it's certainly more expensive than a AR15 or STG58.


I simply love the AR.
 
AR15. Better accuracy, and if range work is what you want it for, the 223 is LOTS easier on the shoulder. I can shoot my AR for hours and suffer no ill effects, but shootingf my FAL for awhile will produce a pretty nasty bruise that I will be feeling the next day (ouch!).

That said, for an all around rifle that is fun on the range, can handle anything that walks around in the Americas and has lots of black rifle appeal, the FAL is hard to beat.
 
Have you shot either of these rifles? If the answer is no,I suggest,if possible,that you get together with an owner or owners of each and try each rifle out at the range. I think that would make your decision easier.
 
It's the AR in the home stretch...

Looks like the AR is hedging out the FAL. I've kind-of been leaning in that direction myself since I posted. I'll be shooting this thing always at distances under 200 yds, and that 5.56 ammo is deliciously inexpensive. Also, the evil-o-meter is swinging just slightly in favor of the AR, which holds a certain appeal to the dark underbelly of my soul. I've not made my mind up just yet; I'll handle both again at my gunshop on Saturday, and then I'll pay the piper. Thanks very much for your help!
vanfunk
 
i shot my 30-06 bolt rifle for 10 rounds this weekend

then i put 20 thru the .308 vepr

then i ran 60 in the AR

the AR, in comparison, has no recoil
(& mine has no muzzel device)
 
I am not worried

He'll end up with a FAL, too, in the end. ;)

ALL YOUR RIFLE ARE BELONG TO FAL

:D Mike :D

PS The FAL is easy on recoil, too. Much less recoil than my pump action 30-06.
 
I had both, was motivated by 308 performance and cheapness of FAL mags. Couldn't deal with FAL ergonomics and indifferent accuracy, poor (front-heavy) balance. Kept 20" HBAR15 and also "shortie" Garand (which is inferior to FAL in theory but not in practice).

IMO, AR15 ergonomics win over FAL/AK big time.
 
Oleg, did you perchance buy a Century gun????

You get what you pay for in FALs. The DSA is extremely accurate and reliable. The Enterprise guns are OK.

I might advise checking with J&T. You would probably be able to get a kit and put it on a lower(DPMS or Armalite) for less than a bushmaster. I built mine....it took about 10 minutes and has functioned perfectly for several thousand rounds.

For good ammo, prices are about the same for 223 and 308. That's about $135-$170 per thousand.

For me, the FAL ergonomics are the best ever. I can shoot fairly accurately without having to precisely aim (snap shot). I like the rock-in mags on the FAL. I like steel guns that I don't have to keep a full load of replacement parts for. I don't like how the charging handle latch on the AR wears into the upper, and eventually requires repair/replacement of the upper.
 
I don't like how the charging handle latch on the AR wears into the upper, and eventually requires repair/replacement of the upper.
Click to expand...

I have never heard of such a thing; I've been shooting ARs for 15 years.
 
Oleg-

No offense intended, but IIRC you had a Hesse FAL. Thats like buying a Trabant and expecting it to perform like a BMW, and when it doesn't deciding that german motor cars just suck. ;) ;) I'm surprised that poor accuracy was the only problem it had.

Mike
 
Actually, my FAL was built especially for me and is now giving good service to another TFLer. Just that its accuracy was no better than a Mak90 and the left-side charging handle was not to my taste. It was reliable.

I do like 308 and have been looking at AR10 just because it cobines AR15 ergonomics with a heavier round.
 
I have a Century L1A1 (but believe it or not it works really good :) ) and a Bushmaster Dissipator.

Between the two I find that I shoot the FAL much more often, and the Bushmaster ends up sitting in the closet. But that is just my personal taste. The Bushy is super accurate, capable of much greater accuracy than my pathetic rifle skills can wring out of it. The Bushy has a better trigger. The Bushy is lighter. The Bushy has better iron sights.

But, the FAL fits me better, even with the ridiculous thumbhole stock, it shoots bigger bullets, if you shop around for milsurp ammo, you can actually get .308 for LESS than .223. And in my experience the FAL is more reliable, and easier to clean.

So go with whatever floats your boat. Heck, get one of each. Then you will always have a spare.
 
This is a real nail-biter...

I still don't know. It may even come down to instant gratification. My local firearms emporium keeps the Bushmaster M4's in stock at all times- they just sold the DSA FAL they had and probably won't get another unless someone wants to order one. And I'm just incorrigible, really. When I make my mind up to buy a certain gun, I've got to have it right away- can't stand to wait for the BBT to arrive (C+R purchases) or for the gunshop to receive a special order. Knowing that I could go out tonight and come home with the Bushmaster is enough incentive to go that route. Ahh, the agony. Thanks again for your excellent and informative posts!
vanfunk
 
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