Apex wants their P320 Triggers back

M

Maverick36

New member
Just got a message today from Midway:

Due to Sig Sauer’s recently-announced voluntary upgrade of the Sig P320 pistol, Apex Tactical has suspended sales of their Sig P320 aftermarket triggers. Apex Tactical asks Customers who have purchased an Apex Sig P320 Trigger to stop using the trigger and to please contact Apex Tactical Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 to return the trigger in exchange for credit towards any other Apex product.
Apex Link
https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Category?categoryId=53
 
So does Grayguns, eventually:

As you may have heard, last week SIG SAUER® published a press release concerning the P320. They noted “dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.” We independently evaluated the information, and there is some merit to claims that some P320s may unintentionally discharge after being dropped at a specific angle.

Our records indicate you have purchased either a straight or curved version of our Practical Enhanced Leverage Trigger (PELT) for the P320.

Stock P320s with our trigger installed may still unintentionally discharge if dropped at an angle not tested as part of the accepted standards as defined by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) / Sporting Arms Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI®), or National Institute of Justice (NIJ).

On Monday, SIG SAUER announced details about their voluntary upgrade program. The program includes installation of an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector.

Grayguns suggests you send your P320 to SIG SAUER for the voluntary upgrade.

Prior to sending the gun, remove your Grayguns trigger and include the stock trigger in the package sent to SIG SAUER. Retain your Grayguns trigger.

Our team - in consultation with our engineering partners at SIG SAUER - is working to develop an alternative design that will be compatible with your upgraded P320 and provide you with the same value you received from Grayguns when you made your original purchase of the PELT. As this process will take some time to research, develop, and test, we thank you in advance for your patience.

Remember, consequences for the handling or misuse of any firearm are the operator’s sole responsibility. Safe gun handling practices should be practiced at all times. Never rely upon any mechanical device for your safety.

Details concerning the SIG SAUER P320 voluntary upgrade program are available online.

If you have any questions, you can contact Grayguns via email.
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Well just think, After all this the p320 will probably be the most drop safe gun in the world..

I mean can you imagine if they found another problem later?
 
IMO, not as much of a problem as many are making it out to be. Mine is still working great after two years and I wouldn't even think about getting rid of it.

To each their own.
 
Water-Man said:
IMO, not as much of a problem as many are making it out to be. Mine is still working great after two years and I wouldn't even think about getting rid of it.

To each their own.
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I would still get that gun upgraded. If you don't and it discharges harming someone you are opening yourself up to a huge amount of unnecessary liability.
 
Water-Man wrote:
IMO, not as much of a problem as many are making it out to be. Mine is still working great after two years and I wouldn't even think about getting rid of it.

To each their own.
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Yes, it is your decision, but consider this:
  • The Dallas Police Department reportedly had a P320 discharge when dropped.
  • The Houston Police Department then tested their P320s and experienced a 10% failure rate, so the problem is not being overblown.
  • You have admitted you know about the problem and yet are dismissing it.
  • You have consciously made the decision to not have the gun fixed.
  • Since you have consciously decided to not mitigate a known risk you are intentionally placing others at risk and that means if there is a discharge of your P320 your insurance carrier can refuse coverage because of your wanton disregard of the risk.
Welcome to unlimited civil liability. Juries just love sending messages to people like you; just remember the multi-million dollar verdict against McDonald's for the hot coffee that burned a woman?
 
Legal weasel wording. I bet if they had said it was a "recall" they would be obligated to make a $eriou$ effort to get in every single gun. But it is a "voluntary upgrade" so they may have some defense from people like Waterman
 
Jim Watson said:
Legal weasel wording. I bet if they had said it was a "recall" they would be obligated to make a $eriou$ effort to get in every single gun. But it is a "voluntary upgrade" so they may have some defense from people like Waterman
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Yes, SIG has a defense. Plus the fact that the original design passed all required, standard drop tests.

That won't help Water-man if his P320 experiences a drop fire and someone is injured or killed.
 
I'm with Water-Man, the gun is safe if handled properly. That is according to SigSauer customer service.
As long as it is called a voluntary upgrade and not a mandatory recall, SigSauer is still on the hook. Thats according to a product liability lawer.
They don't say " stop using it and send it back immediatly".
 
The terms Negligent Discharge and Accidental Discharge are very often used incorrectly. Of all the unintentional discharges that happen not one in 1000 meets the requirements for a Negligent Discharge. Maybe not one in 10,000.

But knowing there is a problem, and choosing not to get it fixed when the manufacturer offers to fix the problem is clear cut negligence on the part of the owner. The details of how the gun discharges would be irrelevant. The gun owner in this case could very easily be looking at prison, not just financial liability. Not getting the gun fixed would be the same as driving your car after your mechanic clearly told you that your brakes were failing and the car was dangerous to drive.

Don't get me wrong. I like the gun, will probably buy one and wish Sig success. The fact that they are taking the initiative to fix the problem as soon as it became known wins them bonus points from me.

When they get this fixed, and they will, I think they have a winner.
 
But knowing there is a problem, and choosing not to get it fixed when the manufacturer offers to fix the problem is clear cut negligence on the part of the owner. The details of how the gun discharges would be irrelevant. The gun owner in this case could very easily be looking at prison, not just financial liability. Not getting the gun fixed would be the same as driving your car after your mechanic clearly told you that your brakes were failing and the car was dangerous to drive.
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sorry jmr40 but that's overshooting the target.
SigSauer Website:
Is my P320 safe in its current configuration?
Yes. The P320 meets and exceeds all US safety standards. However, mechanical safeties are designed to augment, not replace safe handling practices. Careless and improper handling of any firearm can result in an unintentional discharge.
They say it's safe.

Why is this upgrade happening?
Through additional testing above and beyond standard American National Standards Institute (ANSI)/Sporting Arms & Ammunition Institute (SAAMI), National Institute of Justice (NIJ), Department of Justice (DOJ), Massachusetts (MGL, Chapter 140, Section 123) and other global military and law enforcement protocols, we have confirmed that usually after multiple drops, at certain angles and conditions, a potential discharge of the firearm may result when dropped. Although it is a rare occurrence, with very specific conditions, SIG SAUER is offering an upgrade to all of its current P320 owners
Upgrade not fix.

What if I don’t want to upgrade the trigger assembly on my P320?
This is a voluntary service, as the P320 meets and exceeds all ANSI/SAAMI, NIJ, DOJ, Massachusetts (MGL, Chapter 140, Section 123), and safety standards. SIG SAUER welcomes all of its P320 owners to take advantage of this program.
Welcomes not mandates.

It's all about the wording and Lawyers will have a field day with this either way, but there is no negligence for not participating in a voluntary upgrade.
 
I don't know. The pistol passes all industry standard drop tests. Sig is improving it voluntarily but I'm not certain, once industry standards are that well developed, that they are under an obligation to. If they are not under an obligation I'm not certain the consumer would be.

Not a lawyer. Free legal advise from an unqualified source is worth less than what you pay for it.
 
To me, the fact that the 320 passed the industry standard tests is evidence that the standard drop tests are horribly out of date, and not that the 320 is safe.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
jmr40 said:
But knowing there is a problem, and choosing not to get it fixed when the manufacturer offers to fix the problem is clear cut negligence on the part of the owner. The details of how the gun discharges would be irrelevant. The gun owner in this case could very easily be looking at prison, not just financial liability. Not getting the gun fixed would be the same as driving your car after your mechanic clearly told you that your brakes were failing and the car was dangerous to drive.
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Wrong, just wrong. That "might" be true if the recall was mandatory, but never for this type of we'll fix it if you want.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
It's obvious that several of you need to take another class in Reading Comprehension 101.

My post says absolutely nothing about the voluntary upgrade and whether or not I will use it.

I hope you're not as careless with your trigger finger as you are with your keyboard.:rolleyes:
 
To me, the fact that the 320 passed the industry standard tests is evidence that the standard drop tests are horribly out of date, and not that the 320 is safe.
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Let's call that a fair logical conclusion. My question would be what standard a company should be held to. Industry standardized and well defined testing protocols (often with government approval if not actual setting of protocols) or some vague definition of "safe" that goes beyond these protocols? Remember the rule regarding drop safety is not that a firearm must be 100% drop safe but that it must be safe when tested with these protocols.
 
Water-Man said:
It's obvious that several of you need to take another class in Reading Comprehension 101.

My post says absolutely nothing about the voluntary upgrade and whether or not I will use it.

I hope you're not as careless with your trigger finger as you are with your keyboard.:rolleyes:
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Why did you feel the need to insult people? No one insulted you. People did give an opinion based on the flippant drive by comment you made but they certainly didn't question your intellectual capacity. If we actually want to look at and analyze your words the conclusion I and other people drew is logical. Why are you being so defensive.

Water-Man wrote:
IMO, not as much of a problem as many are making it out to be. Mine is still working great after two years and I wouldn't even think about getting rid of it.

To each their own.
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You stated the drop safe problem with the P320 is "not as much of a problem as many are making it". You state yours works great and you are not getting rid of it. When you take this statement as a logical sylogism it is easy to draw the inference that you will not upgrade your pistol because the problem is exaggerated and yours is working great without the upgrade. I assume you have not tested your individual pistol with a 30 degree drop when loaded but feel it is safe in it current form = "works great".

Thanks for the clarification of your thoughts. So I have a question for you are you going to send in your P320 into Sig for the upgrade?
 
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