Apartment/Urban/Drywall Shotgun Load and Gauge? Your choice? Ideas?

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stonewall50

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So I have been doing some research and let's say you have 2 possible gauges: 12 3 inch and 20. This is your apartment defense gun. What load would you decide on?

I currently own a single shot 20 and a 12 gauge 3 inch. Which would you prefer for home defense? What load choice? Any recommendations? This is my conundrum. I can't go out and buy a new rifle or anything like that. I don't have anything that is suited for this. The closest buildings are about 35 yards and 80 yards (with a metal fence between me and that set of buildings).

Then there is the dry wall problem. I don't like the idea of bird shot. Should I look for turkey loads? What are some suggestions? Maybe something I can experiment with as I have access to some old dry wall to shoot as well.
 
I would go with a standard 2 3/4" OObuck load in the 12ga and have the 20ga loaded similarly. That would be my 2nd shot if the first didnt do the trick.
 
MarkCO said:
Given the constraints, low recoil slugs from the 12g (assuming you have follow up shots with it).
Click to expand...



12 is a pump gun. The 20 is a single shot. How bad is over penetration with a slug? I've honestly never shot a slug in my life. Only buck, steel, turkey, bismuth, and some other odd loads.
 
"...over penetration with a slug..." It's possible for a slug to go right through that 80 yard distant wall. Absolutely, it'll(so will 00 Buck, but you won't know if you hit anything or not at 80 with buck shot. Kind of useless stuff except at close range. Then it penetrates too much.) go right through dry wall and the 35 yard wall without noticing either. Depending on what the wall is made of, of course. Wood won't even slow it down at 80 yards. Brick might.
Use the 12 with #2 shot. It'll still penetrate dry wall and be dangerous at 80 yards though.
A great deal depends on the construction of the apartment too. Modern buildings(more than 35 years old and likely longer) are basically big blocks of reinforced concrete. The only 'soft' parts to the outside are the door and windows. Inner walls are dry wall. Your fist will go through dry wall. Hurts so do test it. snicker.
 
I misunderstood the wording of the OP. I thought both guns were single shots:confused:

Even so my ammo advice stands. A 2 3/4 inch OObuck load has been the tried and proven anti people load for both Mil and LE forever. All the smaller sizes have shown a lack of penetration and stopping ability.

Los Angeles Co Sheriffs used #4 buck for a while and had some not so great results. IIRC they have now gone to OObuck for the penetration in tissue.

The debate (on the internet) rages bird vs buck, in terms of defensive loads. ALL of the birdshot loads have shown less then adequate penetration in gel tests. Youtube has a TON of these tests avail to watch. Go check em out.
 
Please, no birdshot for self defense. I've shot all kinds of loads through my life and birdshot/LE would be the last choice. I would also go with 00 buck and choose my shots. I live in a older apartment with brick walls btw.
 
The geometry of your shots is going to be more important in an apartment than the load you are using. I bought a bunch of Federal #1 Flightcontrol Buckshot a while back and that is what is in my 870. I would never take a shot that wouldn't terminate in one of my brick exterior walls (I'm on an end unit in a town home) or into the roof.
 
I have a similar problem living in a manufactured home with neighbors homes about twenty feet away on both sides.

I have been thinking of going with #4 buckshot in my 870.

My other options for home defense are an AR-15, a 30-30, a .22 rifle or 9mm pistol.
 
I'm not sure how big your apartment is. I've done lots of testing with birdshot and buckshot. Is there other occupants in other rooms inside this apartment? Even light game loads of birdshot at room distances will put one large hole with lots of surrounding small holes in drywall or any other building material at these close ranges. Especially if you have a full choke in your gun. I use birdshot because I have 4 kids inside my home. If I get a load of birdshot in a bad guy inside my home I'm 100 positive he won't be attacking anybody else and there will be ample time for a second shot if needed. I won't shoot buckshot that could go thru the walls and hurt my kids. Now after saying that my wife and I have pistols beside the bed that will be used only if absolutely necessary. No matter if you choose birdshot or buckshot the choke you have in your gun is very important.
 
Just me and my girlfriend and 2 dogs. I can shove my girlfriend into the closet and the pit sleeps closer to the window but she would be barking and cowering in her kennel.


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Then small buckshot will definitely be more lethal at longer ranges. But inside the home at extremely close ranges it's not needed. As others have stated bigger shot penetrates deeper and at longer ranges. There are literally tons of choices when it comes to 12 gauge loads. At ranges inside of a home they will almost all be lethal.
 
I think birdshot would do. I mean, we are talking HD here,right? Distance would more than likely be from home owner to window/door. What's that? 12-20 feet maybe? At that distance. bird shot gives you a baseball size of lead/steel coming hard and fast at bad guy. Results are not in bad guys favor. I say this where over penetration to other rooms or family members would be a concern. It will take the fight of bad guy mighty fast.
Just my thoughts of course.
 
My preference would be the 12 gauge pump with 2 3/4" 00 Buck. That's what the police use, that's good enough for me. Because I also live in an apartment, I have decided against using the shotgun in an HD role after more research showed that I would likely blast through several walls with it. My Mossberg was in an HD role for many years before I decided to retire it. I think you will have less of a problem with bird shot, but I don't recommend using bird shot against a human attacker. After all, it is not within its design parameters. Slugs are extremely effective but I think are designed to increase the useful distance of your shotgun. They are unnecessary at your distance and will absolutely go through several layers of drywall.

If you only have those two choices, 12 gauge 00 buck is the ticket. Judicious marksmanship is mandatory. Some other great options would be practically any modern handgun or an AR-15.
 
Anything that can penetrate a human can punch a hole through drywall. Even a 22 LR can make it through 6 sheets of drywall.

I'd stick with 12 gauge buck shot and be more concerned about accuracy and not missing your target.
 
Honestly, living in a corner apartment as I do, with neighbors on 2/4 sides, I don't even have my shotgun here. It's in the fire safe at my father-in-law's. I have 2 firearms here, my double stack RIA 1911 in 22TCM/9mm and my wife's Jeminez JA380. Using a pistol I will take my chances keeping shots at "torso height" which is hopefully higher than my neighbor's beds. No spread from a pistol will improve chances that collateral damage is minimal. If you have no choice but to use a shotgun, you definitely want more than one ready. I'm going to say 12 gauge 00buck, choke it down and trap shoot often for quick, accurate target acquisition.
 
If you do a Lil research on gunfights, over 80% of shots fired are misses. Refine your search and look at gunfights at 10 yards/30 ft or less and it's still over 80% misses. If you dont consider that into your equation then I can't recommend anything to you. Shooting at a bad guy in any situation at any distance will result in 8 out of 10 misses. Adrenaline is never your friend with a gun in your hand. Even sitting on a deer stand with a very precise rifle can cause buck fever/Adrenaline and result in a miss. Most common answer is I was trying to hurry and stop the threat. You can hurry thru a 19 round magazine and never connect with a vital shot with a handgun. A 4 inch wad of atleast 7/8 ounce lead does increase your chances but only marginally. You can't physically shoot a shotgun as fast as you can a pistol and the longer barrel makes it easier to hit the target when you just point and shoot. If you dont think birdshot is the right recipe for you then small buckshot is alot better than 00buckshot unless you are shooting at 30+ yards. Over penetrations in any dwelling is a recipe for disaster. At 20 feet with a cylinder bore shotgun is a whole different critter than a full choke shotgun. Poster board is less than a $1 a piece at wally world. Ideal load would be about a 8 inch pattern at 20 feet. If you can do that with buckshot please let me know how you did it. If you keep that buckshot from penetrating a second wall please let me know.
 
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