AOW and shotguns....

Super-Dave, the answer to your question about the .410 is NO. You have what is called a re-manufacture. If you 'significantly' modify a weapon as to change its 1. intended purpose or 2. permanently & drastically change its visual exterior you have effectively and illegally re-manufactured the weapon. This is HIGHLY ILLEGAL to do to anything you intend to sell.. You can do it to your own pieces (within certain guidelines), but once you do you can never sell them.

ALSO

If you were to purchase a .410 shotgun that came from the factory with a stock, and cut the barrel down, even though you have removed the stock, you still have a illegal short barreled shotgun. The barrel CAN NOT be trimmed below a set length. I believe its 18.5" from receiver to tip. $200.00 txfer tax.

If you purchase a .410 that did NOT come with a stock and shorten the barrel you've created an AOW. Any Other Weapon ($5.00 txfer tax). As you have changed the weapon to something other than for sporting purposes. Regardless of the fact that its breech AND barrel openings are less than .5". People have done just that to their pistol gripped .410's and have gotten nailed for it. The law does NOT stipulate which gauge the weapons have to be to be considered "shotguns". This also applies to the virgin receiver from the factory.

You can purchase pistols made to fire the .45LC that can also shoot .410, but the weapon was initially designed to do just that. It is also rumored that you can only shoot slugs from this, but I dont know for sure on that one. I do know that very soon those pistols will more than likely become part of the NFA/AOW community as well.
 
Douglasschuckert-
Sorry, but you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

SuperDave-
Your proposal just might be legal (if you are a manufacturer). I would certainly get an ATF ruling first. I don't see much purpose for that type gun, other than cool factor.
 
I just wanted it for the cool factor. Here in florida it is hard to get an AOW. you have to jump through so many hoopes it is just not worth it.

I was thinking about having a company that makes and sells AOW shotguns to make this configuration and then sell it to me as a pistol through my ffl.

It is really just for the cool factor, however .410 sabot slugs in a portable package could still cause some damage. Might be good for hikers against mountain lions or small bears.

I was hoping it was legal so I could get someone to make and sell it to me all legal. I am legit and only want legal firearms.
 
Here in florida it is hard to get an AOW. you have to jump through so many hoopes it is just not worth it.
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Hard? It's the same hoops anyone in the US purchasing NFA toys must go through. I've jumped through them six times so far. Not that complicated.
 
If you were to purchase a .410 shotgun that came from the factory with a stock, and cut the barrel down, even though you have removed the stock, you still have a illegal short barreled shotgun. The barrel CAN NOT be trimmed below a set length. I believe its 18.5" from receiver to tip. $200.00 txfer tax.
Click to expand...

There is no minimum barrel length for a SBS. Minimum length to NOT be a SBS is 18".

If you purchase a .410 that did NOT come with a stock and shorten the barrel you've created an AOW. Any Other Weapon ($5.00 txfer tax).
Click to expand...
AOW's are $5 to transfer, but they are $200 to manufacture on a Form 1.

Regardless of the fact that its breech AND barrel openings are less than .5". People have done just that to their pistol gripped .410's and have gotten nailed for it. The law does NOT stipulate which gauge the weapons have to be to be considered "shotguns".
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What makes it an AOW is the smooth bore. And if the bore is rifled then the pump action forend, which makes it necessary to operate with 2 hands, makes it an AOW. Similar to putting a foregrip on a Glock pistol...

You can purchase pistols made to fire the .45LC that can also shoot .410, but the weapon was initially designed to do just that. It is also rumored that you can only shoot slugs from this, but I dont know for sure on that one. I do know that very soon those pistols will more than likely become part of the NFA/AOW community as well.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt that. You'd then have to outlaw shotshells for .357's .44's etc. ad nauseum...

On a side note, I'm considering a Serbu Super Shorty on an 870 action just because my state outlaws SBS's and my ambition is to own at least one of each type of NFA firearm. This way I can tell myself that the Serbu is the SBS and the Pen Gun is the AOW :cool:
 
Okay what if you took a virgin remington .410 reciever. and A rifled barrel that was made for a .45 long colt. and a magazine tube enhanced to feed the .45 long colt. Put a pistol grip on it. Can you then sell it as a pistol?


I personally would rather have the above configuration in .44 magnum or maybe .500

It would be cool, but also has a legitimate anti bear/cougar or hunting purpose.

Also I would rather fire it than a use one of those huge revolvers like the joker used on the original batman.
 
The pump action forend doesn't matter as long as it's not a pistol grip.

Super-Dave, if a company produced a rifled pump action .45 Colt pistol (from a virgin reciever) that just happened to have a chamber that would accept and safely fire .410 shotshells, then it should be a pistol.
 
The problem with that theory is that "pump action" requires two hands to operate. If it takes two hands to operate, by definition it cannot be a pistol/handgun.
 
It's a handgun

Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, (but see below) gadget
type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons with both
rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18", that must be
manually reloaded (see discussion below).

The AOW classification related to more than one vertical pistol grip, nothing to do with how many hands it takes to operate it.

Plenty of handguns have horizontal grips. It's only a 90 degree angled grip that is a problem.

Even then the ATF allows Tommy Gun Pistols with a vertical grip, because they say so.
 
§ 921 Definitions.

(29) The term "handgun" means—

(A) a firearm which has a short
stock and is designed to be held and
fired by the use of a single hand;
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How exactly do you operate the pump action with one hand?

A semi-auto action might make the pistol description. Just another gun like the AR-15 pistol or SP-89 only chambered in .45LC. However, if you have to manipulate a pump to shoot it, it is going to require two hands. Ever seen any other "pump action" handgun before?
 
You can't OPERATE a bolt action or single shot pistol with one hand either- but you can shoot them one handed. You can't OPERATE A REVOLVER OR SEMI-AUTO WITH ONE HAND EITHER-but you can shoot them one handed.
Notice that it says "held and fired", not operated.
 
Doesn't matter our opinion anyway. Gotta have that little note from ATF to make it so. At least until they change their opinion.
 
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