Anyone use .22LR conversion kits?
- Thread starter OhioGuy
- Start date
I had an Argentina made 22 conversion kit for my Browning High Power. I picked it up NIB but never used it. It only came with one mag and I just have too many other options for shooting 22s that I thought would be more practical. So I ended up trading it off. I don't miss it. 
Wow, lots of great responses! Thanks everyone!
To the point about not using one, because they're not as accurate as dedicated platforms built around the cartridge--I think I'd agree. I've had an S&W Victory, and those sorts of pistols can shoot gnats out of trees. I ended up selling it because I didn't use it that often...absolute accuracy wasn't what I was going for (now that I've discovered some rimfire shooting competitions, I may go back and buy another next year).
My interest was more in a cost effective way to train more with the gun and accessories I already have. If my CZ P-07 in .22 conversion isn't as accurate as a Victory, that's OK. What I'd mainly be doing with it is gaining extra trigger time on that same gun (with the same trigger!), practicing repetitions with the DA pull. I figure that shooting rapid fire strings when there's almost no recoil won't be the most valuable use of ammo, but I can practice coming up rapidly on target, or drawing fast, or doing the "press out," hundreds of times for very little money.
That is, once I have the kit! That's my conundrum. I think I can get the Kadet kit for around $250. I order bulk 9mm at around 18 cents/round. So for the price of the .22lr kit, I could do around 1,400 9mm shots from the holster or the press-out. That's a LOT of practice using the real cartridge that I carry.
For cheap plinking fun, I already have a Walther PPQ .22lr that I bought on sale (under $300!) last year because...just because. That's a fun gun and very accurate! I liked it so well that I got a PPQ Q5 Match for competition. Whenever I train for accuracy I run 100 rounds of .22 single-tap, and then 50 of 9mm double-tap. It's a great combination.
To the point about not using one, because they're not as accurate as dedicated platforms built around the cartridge--I think I'd agree. I've had an S&W Victory, and those sorts of pistols can shoot gnats out of trees. I ended up selling it because I didn't use it that often...absolute accuracy wasn't what I was going for (now that I've discovered some rimfire shooting competitions, I may go back and buy another next year).
My interest was more in a cost effective way to train more with the gun and accessories I already have. If my CZ P-07 in .22 conversion isn't as accurate as a Victory, that's OK. What I'd mainly be doing with it is gaining extra trigger time on that same gun (with the same trigger!), practicing repetitions with the DA pull. I figure that shooting rapid fire strings when there's almost no recoil won't be the most valuable use of ammo, but I can practice coming up rapidly on target, or drawing fast, or doing the "press out," hundreds of times for very little money.
That is, once I have the kit! That's my conundrum. I think I can get the Kadet kit for around $250. I order bulk 9mm at around 18 cents/round. So for the price of the .22lr kit, I could do around 1,400 9mm shots from the holster or the press-out. That's a LOT of practice using the real cartridge that I carry.
For cheap plinking fun, I already have a Walther PPQ .22lr that I bought on sale (under $300!) last year because...just because. That's a fun gun and very accurate! I liked it so well that I got a PPQ Q5 Match for competition. Whenever I train for accuracy I run 100 rounds of .22 single-tap, and then 50 of 9mm double-tap. It's a great combination.
TruthTellers
New member
This is my point. You can get steel case Wolf at SportsmansGuide right now for 16.1 cents/round and get free shipping.
I'd rather go that route and train with 1500 rounds. By the time you've shot all that ammo, you'll be really good with that gun.
Walt Sherrill
New member
OhioGuy said:
You might be pleasantly surprised. I've had a lot of CZs over the years, and I still use my Kadet Kit with my 85 Combat. That kit was MORE accurate than any .22 I've owned.
Most Kadet Kits are surprisingly accurate. Part of it has to do with the design: The upper, the barrel and the sights are a single unit, with only a relatively small bolt moving when the round is fired. (Some conversion kits have the same sort of basic design, but not all of them do it as well.) Mine locks back the slide with the last shot.
I've thought about getting a Kadet Kit for my P-07, so that my son, my grandson and I can all shoot .22s at the range.
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I found while training police officers with their duty weapons some had definite difficulties with the .40 round. With problem cases I would work with the person using a .22 conversion kit for an hour or two. Normally the difficulty was determined and worked on, then back to the duty weapon where the improvement was often immediate.
Several of us honed speed drills using the .22’s and then applied the technique to the bigger caliber with great success. So the sub gun idea worked for me in a training capacity.
Several of us honed speed drills using the .22’s and then applied the technique to the bigger caliber with great success. So the sub gun idea worked for me in a training capacity.
simonrichter
New member
I have an Uhl conversion for my G17. Very interesting system, using a slide approximately the same weight as the original 9mm and a gas piston booster to compensate. Thus, the handling does feel very much like the original caliber and not so much "air gun" like
You will never be sorry you went the Kadet route. For this and all the other reasons.[/QUOTE]
How would you weigh the benefit of buying the Kadet kit, vs spending the money on roughly 1300 rounds of 9mm practice ammo?
.22 conversion units
This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I started shooting .22 conversion units about 35 years ago, when I was a poor student. About the same time Jerry Usher had an article in (I think) the American Handgunner ANNUAL advocating the use of what he called "understudy" guns for economical practice.
During my military service I used an M-16 (three different models, actually) and carried (in order) an S&W 15 revolver, an M1911A1 and then an M9. I have personal examples of all of those guns.
Over the years I acquired a S&W 18 (.22 cal combat masterpiece), a Colt Ace (.22 on the O frame) and a Ciener and then later a Beretta “practice kit” for the M9. And an Atchisson and then a Colt conversion unit for the AR-15. In 2009 I bought a S&W M&P 15-22 rifle (which works really well)
(I also have a S&W 650 in .22 to go with my S&W 60 HB 3 inch, an argentine .22 conversion unit for my Browning P35, a Sig conversion unit I bought in 2008 for my 9mm 226 & 226-DAK in .40 cal, and a Walther PPK/S in .22 that I use as a practice gun for my Walther PPK & Sig 230. I also have a S&W M&P pistol in .22. One of the current Colt marked M1911 pattern pistols is also on my list of potential purchases, depending on what happens with the availability of .22 LR ammunition)
In my military service I was an LE Specialist in the SPs in the ANG, an MP in the ARNG and then finished up back in the ANG as a CATM instructor. Back in the 80s we had access to the 50 foot indoor range at the local ARNG armory, which had a mild steel backstop and was limited to .22s. Shot thousands of rounds in there, and at the ROTC range on campus (I was enlisted, but I had a friend who was in the ROTC and he was able to get me in a few times) which was also limited to .22 because of a soft steel backstop and questionable ventilation . . .
I've done LOTS of shooting with all of them. I find it works best to do accuracy drills with the .22s. They don't have much recoil, but the balance and trigger pull and sight picture are all the same.
For practice with the bigger guns I usually use an IPSC or IDPA target or an NRA B-34 (1/2 scale) target.
For the .22s I usually use the ½ scale B-34 or B-24 targets or the 1/3rd scale B-29 or TQ-16 or TQ-20 targets . Lately I have also been using the Warrant Tactical WTS-1 target, which has the same scoring zones as a USPSA target.
I basically do my same set of drills at the same distances, but on a much smaller target. It helps a LOT to keep in tune and not spend as much money doing it.
The Ciener unit for the Beretta M9 is serviceable. The Beretta factory unit works better, and does have a hammer de-cocker/safety, just like the original.
The Ciener unit for the Glock is marginally reliable. Mine worked better after I had the chamber and the sides of the extractor where it pivots in the frame polished. If I clean it every 150 rounds or so, use good quality ammo and lube it well, it works reasonably well.
I have found the Advantage Arms conversion unit for the Glock to be a joy to shoot, provided that you use high velocity ammunition with a plated bullet. The same thing is true for the Sig conversion. As long as you run ammo with a plated bullet at 1230 fps or so, they work pretty well. With slower ammo you’ll have many failures to go fully into battery, which is aggravating.
I have the conversions for the G19 and G22 on dedicated Glock frames that I bought from Glockmeister. I tried to talk Sig into selling me a frame to put my conversion unit on, but was unsuccessful.
I bought my Atchisson conversion for the AR-15 in 1982 from Bro-Caliber International in Cincinnati. It was very rough and didn't work very well. Based on a 1985 article in SOLDIER OF FORTUNE Magazine I sent my conversion unit off to John Norrell Arms (now in Little Rock, Arkansas) and paid him almost $300 to tune it up so it would work. IT WAS MONEY WELL SPENT! As long as I keep the unit reasonably clean and well lubed and use good ammo, it'll shoot all day every day. (www,johnnorrellarms.com) (I don't know if he still adjusts conversion units like that or not . . . )
I also have a Ciener converter for an AK-47 . I’ve had it for years and haven’t shot it that much. And not in a long time. That sounds like a good project for this winter.
Of course, the S&W .22 revolvers are a joy to shoot. Particularly the model 18.
The Argentine conversion unit for the Browning HP is pretty good as well. Like all the rest, kept clean, lubed well and fed good quality ammo, it shoots fairly reliably. (I bought mine from Sportsman's Guide about 15 years ago. There was another importer as well, but I haven't seen them advertised for quite a while now)
Peter Stahl in Germany also made conversion units for the Sig P6 (M225) and various of the Smith & Wesson auto pistols. I'm not sure they were ever imported into the US in any numbers. I tried to order a .22 conversion for my S&W 39 about 30 years ago but was unsuccessful.
Years ago you’d see ads in SHOTGUN NEWS for .22 converters for the P38 pistol. I've never seen one and have no idea how well they work.
None of my conversion units for the AR platform are the least ammo sensitive.
The Colt Ace & Beretta factory conversion unit will function with anything. Sig recommends CCI mini-mags in their conversions, and I believe that Advantage Arms recommends Remington Golden Bullets.
Of course, many of the advantages to be found using a .22 for practice are negated when .22 ammo is hard to find and/or really expensive.
This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I started shooting .22 conversion units about 35 years ago, when I was a poor student. About the same time Jerry Usher had an article in (I think) the American Handgunner ANNUAL advocating the use of what he called "understudy" guns for economical practice.
During my military service I used an M-16 (three different models, actually) and carried (in order) an S&W 15 revolver, an M1911A1 and then an M9. I have personal examples of all of those guns.
Over the years I acquired a S&W 18 (.22 cal combat masterpiece), a Colt Ace (.22 on the O frame) and a Ciener and then later a Beretta “practice kit” for the M9. And an Atchisson and then a Colt conversion unit for the AR-15. In 2009 I bought a S&W M&P 15-22 rifle (which works really well)
(I also have a S&W 650 in .22 to go with my S&W 60 HB 3 inch, an argentine .22 conversion unit for my Browning P35, a Sig conversion unit I bought in 2008 for my 9mm 226 & 226-DAK in .40 cal, and a Walther PPK/S in .22 that I use as a practice gun for my Walther PPK & Sig 230. I also have a S&W M&P pistol in .22. One of the current Colt marked M1911 pattern pistols is also on my list of potential purchases, depending on what happens with the availability of .22 LR ammunition)
In my military service I was an LE Specialist in the SPs in the ANG, an MP in the ARNG and then finished up back in the ANG as a CATM instructor. Back in the 80s we had access to the 50 foot indoor range at the local ARNG armory, which had a mild steel backstop and was limited to .22s. Shot thousands of rounds in there, and at the ROTC range on campus (I was enlisted, but I had a friend who was in the ROTC and he was able to get me in a few times) which was also limited to .22 because of a soft steel backstop and questionable ventilation . . .
I've done LOTS of shooting with all of them. I find it works best to do accuracy drills with the .22s. They don't have much recoil, but the balance and trigger pull and sight picture are all the same.
For practice with the bigger guns I usually use an IPSC or IDPA target or an NRA B-34 (1/2 scale) target.
For the .22s I usually use the ½ scale B-34 or B-24 targets or the 1/3rd scale B-29 or TQ-16 or TQ-20 targets . Lately I have also been using the Warrant Tactical WTS-1 target, which has the same scoring zones as a USPSA target.
I basically do my same set of drills at the same distances, but on a much smaller target. It helps a LOT to keep in tune and not spend as much money doing it.
The Ciener unit for the Beretta M9 is serviceable. The Beretta factory unit works better, and does have a hammer de-cocker/safety, just like the original.
The Ciener unit for the Glock is marginally reliable. Mine worked better after I had the chamber and the sides of the extractor where it pivots in the frame polished. If I clean it every 150 rounds or so, use good quality ammo and lube it well, it works reasonably well.
I have found the Advantage Arms conversion unit for the Glock to be a joy to shoot, provided that you use high velocity ammunition with a plated bullet. The same thing is true for the Sig conversion. As long as you run ammo with a plated bullet at 1230 fps or so, they work pretty well. With slower ammo you’ll have many failures to go fully into battery, which is aggravating.
I have the conversions for the G19 and G22 on dedicated Glock frames that I bought from Glockmeister. I tried to talk Sig into selling me a frame to put my conversion unit on, but was unsuccessful.
I bought my Atchisson conversion for the AR-15 in 1982 from Bro-Caliber International in Cincinnati. It was very rough and didn't work very well. Based on a 1985 article in SOLDIER OF FORTUNE Magazine I sent my conversion unit off to John Norrell Arms (now in Little Rock, Arkansas) and paid him almost $300 to tune it up so it would work. IT WAS MONEY WELL SPENT! As long as I keep the unit reasonably clean and well lubed and use good ammo, it'll shoot all day every day. (www,johnnorrellarms.com) (I don't know if he still adjusts conversion units like that or not . . . )
I also have a Ciener converter for an AK-47 . I’ve had it for years and haven’t shot it that much. And not in a long time. That sounds like a good project for this winter.
Of course, the S&W .22 revolvers are a joy to shoot. Particularly the model 18.
The Argentine conversion unit for the Browning HP is pretty good as well. Like all the rest, kept clean, lubed well and fed good quality ammo, it shoots fairly reliably. (I bought mine from Sportsman's Guide about 15 years ago. There was another importer as well, but I haven't seen them advertised for quite a while now)
Peter Stahl in Germany also made conversion units for the Sig P6 (M225) and various of the Smith & Wesson auto pistols. I'm not sure they were ever imported into the US in any numbers. I tried to order a .22 conversion for my S&W 39 about 30 years ago but was unsuccessful.
Years ago you’d see ads in SHOTGUN NEWS for .22 converters for the P38 pistol. I've never seen one and have no idea how well they work.
None of my conversion units for the AR platform are the least ammo sensitive.
The Colt Ace & Beretta factory conversion unit will function with anything. Sig recommends CCI mini-mags in their conversions, and I believe that Advantage Arms recommends Remington Golden Bullets.
Of course, many of the advantages to be found using a .22 for practice are negated when .22 ammo is hard to find and/or really expensive.
With all these glowing reviews of the Cadet CZ kit, maybe I should buy one just to have it There aren't many things I really plan to do with that gun besides upgrade to XS sights. Of course then my .22 slide will have different sights than my 9mm slide....
Just too many options!
There aren't many things I really plan to do with that gun besides upgrade to XS sights. Of course then my .22 slide will have different sights than my 9mm slide....Just too many options!
My point isn't about wanting to shoot a .22 for its own merits. It's about converting a larger caliber pistol to .22 for the sake of less expensive ammo (from that point forward, after the sunk cost of the kit), or for training with less recoil.
While I see the case for something like the Kadet for the CZ, I'm inclined (for now) to just spend that money on another 1000+ rounds of 9mm and train with the "real thing"
That's an option, but I can blow through 1000 rounds in a few range sessions, but I reload. What happens when that is gone? Also, there is just something intrinsically fun about shooting a .22, especially a conversion like the Kadet Kit.My point isn't about wanting to shoot a .22 for its own merits. It's about converting a larger caliber pistol to .22 for the sake of less expensive ammo (from that point forward, after the sunk cost of the kit), or for training with less recoil.
While I see the case for something like the Kadet for the CZ, I'm inclined (for now) to just spend that money on another 1000+ rounds of 9mm and train with the "real thing"
I have .22 copies or conversion kits for several of my pistols/rifles. Yes they are very useful for training for your major caliber counterparts. It allows for the same feel, trigger pull, sights, mag changes, and so on as my centerfire versions for fraction of the cost. Military institutions around the world have used .22 versions of their larger caliber weapons for a long time.
No you don't get the same recoil impulse. But you get hundreds of rounds of practice sessions at a fraction of the cost. Just don"t let it completely replace your main firearm. Another bonus. I have a shoulder injury I am nursing right now. Not supposed to do anything heavy with my shoulder. My .22"s still allow me to train while my shoulder is down.
No you don't get the same recoil impulse. But you get hundreds of rounds of practice sessions at a fraction of the cost. Just don"t let it completely replace your main firearm. Another bonus. I have a shoulder injury I am nursing right now. Not supposed to do anything heavy with my shoulder. My .22"s still allow me to train while my shoulder is down.
orionengnr
New member
I bought a Ceiner conversion for my 1911 three or four years ago. Up until that point, I took one of my MkIIs to the range every time. Not sure that one of them has been to the range more than once or twice since, and I have to occasionally wonder why I still own two MkIIs.
Bought a CMMG conversion for my AR after (much too much) consideration and deliberation. Now I regret not doing so earlier.
Nothing wrong with shooting full-power rounds through any gun. Also, absolutely nothing wrong with having a low-cost training/muscle memory option, and a something to introduce others to the sport.
Especially now that .22LR has become available again.
Bought a CMMG conversion for my AR after (much too much) consideration and deliberation. Now I regret not doing so earlier.
Nothing wrong with shooting full-power rounds through any gun. Also, absolutely nothing wrong with having a low-cost training/muscle memory option, and a something to introduce others to the sport.
Especially now that .22LR has become available again.