Anyone hear of this?.....

D

Dave McC

Staff In Memoriam
This is through the grapevine, and I've no idea how true it is, but it sure sounds interesting....

Supposedly, a major maker(Domastic or foreign) has been testing some ideas out for a "Serious" shotgun. As we know, most shotguns used for emergency conditions are derived from a sporting arm, a la 870, etc. This one is made to more rugged standards.

Picture a semi-auto shotgun with a gas system over the bbl, like the AK and SKS. High sights, with optical capability. A tube magazine under the short bbl holding shells almost to the muzzle.

Supposedly, this mag is detachable, holds 5-6 rounds, and may be loaded in the conventional way
or loaded separately and interchanged with more mags for reloading rapidly or specialty ammo. The forearm goes with the magazine and is made of synthetic material, like the mag.I have no idea if the mags can be interchanged while there's a round in the chamber, ready to use if needed.

Full stock, possibly collapseable, with PG and ambi safety.

And, here's the kicker. Besides 12 ga, this thing may be made in a non standard gauge,like 15ga. This is supposed to cut down on criminal usage when purloined by a felon from a squad car, dead LEO, etc.

Comments? Or has anyone heard of this?
 
If the beast is going to be made in a non-standard guage, it'll probably be a LEO firearm/ammo as well. That way it can be better "controlled" if it falls into a badguy's control.
 
The Brits did that in India, about a century ago. Single shot Martini rifles were worked over to take a special 14 ga bottlenneck round that fit no other gun, and no other ammo fit it. After the Mutiny in 1858,the Brits were loath to trust the natives with firearms up to the same standard as their troops.

As for this piece, I'm waiting to see how and when it comes out,if ever. The detachable mag sounds like an interesting approach....
 
I had'nt heard this. Most intriguing. Its nice to see some creativity in firearms design. Though I guess there have been some "creative" shotgun designs lately. The "revolver shotgun" comes to mind.

This concept sounds promising, though I hope it won't be LEO only.

Please keep us up to date.
 
Dave, I will advise, but it may be a while. Like I said, it's through the grapevine.

I doubt any serious reduction in kick and control probs would come from dropping from 12 to 15 ga.
 
Dave Mc

Hi Standard had a bullpup auto shotgun back around the time of the riots that had a carrying handle and flashlight built in. Have you ever checked one out? What did you think of it? It was a pretty cool piece to look at.
 
I never shot the High Standard, I believe it was the Model 10. I did handle one, and have heard of unreliability probs.Triggers were terrible, that long linkage is not conducive to a smooth, lightncrisp pull. Sight radius was handgun length, and I like a longer one.

I do think the bullpup concept has merit, and a weapon designed as such but w/o the above probs would have a good market, I'm sure.
 
Sick thought............how bout a bullpup trap gun for shootin from the handicap lines....could have a 40" barrel that swings like a 26"er. Use electric trigger like some of the ISU pistols.

Sam....too much coffee
 
Sam, I like that idea. Obviously lots of caffiene is good for you. :)

Dave, please keep us posted as you learn more. I find the idea of a removable tube very interesting.
 
Wasn't there a thread running recently about some South African? shotgun that had dual tube magazines and was a pump?
Sounds like this might be a take off of that concept.
 
Lone, that's probably the Neostad you're talking about. It's design demands that it be pumped in reverse, one moves the forearm forward and then back.

Zorro, once in my mispent youth, before shells were color coded, I fired off a 16 ga shell in a 12. Split the case all to heck but didn't harm the gun or me.

Sam, that would get around the trigger linkage prob, and I'd like to see just what a trap load that's doing about 1200 FPS in a standard bbl does with an extra 10" of bbl. Chances are, the extra length would slow the charge from friction more than the expanding gases would accelerate the load in those last inches, but we don't know for sure until we try it. Keep drinking that coffee....
 
Dave....new pot of coffee. Low friction shot cups, slower burning powder.

Wish I hadda thunk of it in the late 60s. Miroku was very nice bout building me stuff that was completely off the wall. They built me a 32" single trap with true cylinder and a Very long forcing cone. That one is still gettin 50s and 100s for the third generation of family. Very load sensitive but worth the hassle.

Back bout 46 I watched a bib overalled .410 shooter take almost everybody's money at a money shoot. Dupont WA. He only lost once, when a good man drove him back to the 23yd line. Talk bout gettin conned by a ringer.

Sam.....now the only way I can break clays consistantly is with a hammer.
 
Have a cup for me, Sam. I find the idea of a trapgun with true cyclinder and a longish cone quite intriguing. How did that one come about?

Think of this, that long cone and a tight but untapered bore, acting almost like a 26" long choke. No second jump to distort more shot, no extra pressure spike. Polish the heck outa the cone and bore and you have the test track for superloads.Long cone,less kick. No choke, less kick. Better patterns.
 
Dave , Pretty much the thinkin when workin up the order. Had been gettin pretty tight patterns with a true cylinder Aya double and wanted to see what would happen with longer bbl and cone. Seemed to work.

Drawback is real tight strings don't give you no slack on shot placement.

Sam
 
Haven't heard anything about this project yet. But the AW ban of '94 banned most of the neat goodies on semi auto shotguns. (Folding stocks, pistol grips, more than 5 round extended tubes). You can have some combinations, but not all the previous on guns made after 13 Sep 94.

B.
 
Beowulf, folders and PGs aren't found on my Serious shotguns, so that really isn't a problem. First time I've heard of a mag limit,tho.

I admit I find the idea of a quickchange mag intriguing.

Sam, any ideas on how that long cone, true cylinder job would do with, A, turkey loads and B,
dedicated trap loads? I bet for buckshot shooting it's not too bad either...
 
Dave, don't know bout turkey or buck loads but with trap loads it has amassed a lot of 25, 50 and 100 straights. You either miss em or powder em. #1 son has it now, it is semi retired. Been shot pretty heavy for over thirty years. Son has never gotten a 200 but has a couple 198s. If you are having a "not quite on" day, easy to miss most of em from the 16yd line. Gun theoreticaly way too short for him as it was built for me and he bout 6" taller than I. The whole family likes short pulls, must be genetic, we all learned to shoot from the low butt, international style.

Sam
 
Sounds like a good'un, Sam. I wonder why, considering all the research that has gone into interior ballistics, no company has come out with this as a stock item. Maybe no one thinks it would sell.

With trap loads, what do you think your pattern size is at birdbreaking ranges, say 35 yards?
 
Dave, don't remember. Will ask the youngun next time I mail him....he is not online, and a bugger to find by phone.......Sam
 
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