Anyone have an Arsenal Double Barrel 45?
- Thread starter Skans
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Walt Sherrill
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Had one several years ago (a P-210-6). Financial need forced a sale of it, a S&W 52-2, and collectible Luger. (I badly needed a newer vehicle and I didn't want to go into debt -- so did the BAD THING and sold them, but it was the RIGHT THING for me overall.) I miss both the 210 and 52-2, but not the Luger -- which I never shot. They were all things of beauty.
I actually like some of the Legend features and minor mods/changes better, and I doubt that I could notice or measure any decline in performance with the newer guns. There were things about the older models I didn't like -- like sights that would cut you (if you tried hand-over slide manipulation), and an awkward mag release. A friend's P-210 hammer bit him so badly he finally sold it. Some of this seems less a problem with newer models.
I recently sold a SIG P-220 X-five (SA) in .40; I simply couldn't shoot it worth a darn. It wasn't the gun, it was me. I got what I paid for it, so it was an interesting experience.
Hi, Skans,
Here is what I am thinking. Both hammers fall. But mechanically, it is impossible to be sure both fall at exactly the same time. It might seem like simultaneously, but we are dealing in milliseconds here.
So the round in barrel A fires; the primer is fast and the powder burns rapidly. The bullet moves and the recoil begins to move the barrel-slide unit to the rear. That causes link down and unlocking. But the hammer for side B is slower in moving, the primer is a tad slower, the powder burns more slowly, etc. The pressure is still high when barrel B unlocks under the recoil of barrel A. So you have an out-of-battery firing. Maybe that won't happen. Maybe the firings, even if not exactly simultaneous, are close enough that there is no concern. Or maybe the inventors have always used perfect ammo. Or just been lucky.
Jim
Here is what I am thinking. Both hammers fall. But mechanically, it is impossible to be sure both fall at exactly the same time. It might seem like simultaneously, but we are dealing in milliseconds here.
So the round in barrel A fires; the primer is fast and the powder burns rapidly. The bullet moves and the recoil begins to move the barrel-slide unit to the rear. That causes link down and unlocking. But the hammer for side B is slower in moving, the primer is a tad slower, the powder burns more slowly, etc. The pressure is still high when barrel B unlocks under the recoil of barrel A. So you have an out-of-battery firing. Maybe that won't happen. Maybe the firings, even if not exactly simultaneous, are close enough that there is no concern. Or maybe the inventors have always used perfect ammo. Or just been lucky.
Jim
Jim, I think it depends somewhat on the lock time, and I think lock time can be adjusted by design. If you built in a little more lock time before the slide moves rearward, you should be able to engineer out any problems due to uneven hammer drop.
But, even if there was a delay in one of the hammers dropping, I think the only thing that would happen would be that one cartridge would go off and the other live round will simply be ejected without having been fired. Once the slide starts moving backward, I do not believe the hammer can hit the firing pin. I'd bet its designed to prevent basically slam-fires.
But, even if there was a delay in one of the hammers dropping, I think the only thing that would happen would be that one cartridge would go off and the other live round will simply be ejected without having been fired. Once the slide starts moving backward, I do not believe the hammer can hit the firing pin. I'd bet its designed to prevent basically slam-fires.
Hi, Skans,
Maybe the timing can be "adjusted" for one brand of ammo and primer, but can it be "adjusted" for all possible brands/types? Remember, we are dealing in milliseconds; that slide can begin to move after the other hammer has fallen, so the idea that the hammer can't contact the firing pin is beside the point.
The only way to find out would be to buy one of those guns and wring it out with thousands of combinations of ammunition. Honestly, I am not planning to do that and, unless you do, I guess the point will remain moot.
Jim
Maybe the timing can be "adjusted" for one brand of ammo and primer, but can it be "adjusted" for all possible brands/types? Remember, we are dealing in milliseconds; that slide can begin to move after the other hammer has fallen, so the idea that the hammer can't contact the firing pin is beside the point.
The only way to find out would be to buy one of those guns and wring it out with thousands of combinations of ammunition. Honestly, I am not planning to do that and, unless you do, I guess the point will remain moot.
Jim
Microgunner
New member
I don't believe the designers /manufacturer ever intended to arm anyone. This was probably an exercise in 'can it be done ' that began after a night of drinking.
Microgunner
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I'd like to own one too, because look how interesting everyone finds the concept.
I just saw a close-up of the hammer(s). It's actually one hammer, not two. It must fire simultaneously or not at all. Does it require a pull of both triggers to drop the hammer? I don't know.
Anyway, I also saw that the frames are made in Italy. So, my thought is that either Tanfoglio or Beretta is actually making the frames......but just don't want to have their name on it for whatever reason. Are there any other Italian pistol makers that could pull this off?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSnyQV5pBKM
Look @ this especially 2.15 it shows the right barrel seemingly shoot alot faster then the left. perhaps the left is venting gases due to lock up or just less powder in the round.
Look @ this especially 2.15 it shows the right barrel seemingly shoot alot faster then the left. perhaps the left is venting gases due to lock up or just less powder in the round.
Very cool video! To me, it looked like the shots from each barrel were pretty well synchronized. Only in one of the frames (overhead view) did it look like the left bullet left the bore a tiny fraction faster on the left than the right, but this is in ultra slow motion. Not enough to make a difference.
What I did notice is that the gun has quite a bit of muzzle rise. Way more than my Desert Eagle 44 magnum. I wonder what one cartridge two 45acp cartridges would be equivalent to?
What I did notice is that the gun has quite a bit of muzzle rise. Way more than my Desert Eagle 44 magnum. I wonder what one cartridge two 45acp cartridges would be equivalent to?
yeah I noticed as you said most clear the tubes pretty close together. they also seem to impact the target @ similar speeds and times aswell. I am curious about the recoil as well. The shooter seems to have a very relaxed stance at the elbows and wrist which probably make the recoil look more extreme. Kinda like the SSA letting it roll up after its fired. 
I handled one of these pistols at the DSC convention last month. The hammer is a single unit so there's no way for one hammer to fall by itself.
You can pull one trigger or both, it makes no difference, As I understand it the triggers are linked together in some way so pulling one, or the other, or both will all have the same effect.
There could be very small differences in the firing behavior of one barrel vs. the other based on small differences in firing pin length and other minor differences between one upper and the other, but the differences should be very small.
That said, I think that if you loaded only one "side" of the pistol, you could probably get pretty good groups.
You can pull one trigger or both, it makes no difference, As I understand it the triggers are linked together in some way so pulling one, or the other, or both will all have the same effect.
There could be very small differences in the firing behavior of one barrel vs. the other based on small differences in firing pin length and other minor differences between one upper and the other, but the differences should be very small.
Regulating two fixed barrels on a rifle to shoot to the same point of aim is a difficult job requiring a skilled gunsmith. Regulating two floating barrels in a locked breech design pistol to shoot to the same point of aim is going to be even more difficult. Fortunately, I doubt anyone is buying this gun for competition or target shooting.
That said, I think that if you loaded only one "side" of the pistol, you could probably get pretty good groups.