ActivShootr
New member
You guys are pretty harsh. Do you sell your cars if they won't start?
I'll take any junk cars or guns. Haul them off free of charge.
I'll take any junk cars or guns. Haul them off free of charge.
Anyone else get rid of a CCW after 1 malf?
- Thread starter natjohnb
- Start date
Tam,
I meant those words in a general sense, not in absolute terms... I fully realize that any mechanical device, whether high or low quality, can and will fail at some point.
My SW1911 with a couple thousand rounds through it, has had ZERO failures, ever. At some point it will probably choke for some reason, that is the nature of any semi-auto, but it will still be a gun that I can have some faith in.
A $280 Kel-tec that has a feed failure (for no readily apparent reason) in the first 200 rounds, isn't worth $200-$300 more in premium ammo just to figure out if it's going to be reliable or not, IMO.
I was shaky about Kel-tec when I bought it in the first place, now I've made up my mind. Call me a snob if you want.
My "faith" is in much Higher places...
I need to be able to "trust" my CC gun to work reliably.
redlevel42
New member
if the gun can go 200-250 MRBF, it is probably good enough to carry
I've been shooting nigh on to fifty years now. I had to google MRBF.
Is that a military term? Mean Rounds Before Failure?
Are you saying that you would carry a gun that failed every 250 rounds?
Possibly I am misinterpreting your statement, and what you mean is that 200-250 failure free rounds in a new gun are enough to prove reliability sufficiently for a carry gun. I agree, although I think 500-1000 rounds would be better. In any case, I am not trying to pick a fight. Just trying to learn.
I don't have a whole lot of experience with semi-autos. I have owned a WWII era 1911A1 for about 35 years, and have probably fired a couple of thousand rounds in that time, all factory and all hardball. No failures. My Norinco failed to fire once because I had not slapped home the magazine hard enough. It was practically new when that happened, and after everything "wore in," I have had no more problems. Incidentally, I have used cheap, gun show purchased mags in these two and never had any problems.
I owned, and carried on duty, a S&W Model 39-2 in the early 70's. I probably fired 2500 rounds through it in a couple of years. I had one stovepipe jam, for no apparent reason. Again, all factory ammo, and mostly hardball, although I fired several boxes of a couple of different hollow-point rounds. I always carried hardball on duty.
It sounds like many of you are expecting your semi-automatics to fail. I wouldn't be really shocked if the next time I shot one of my 1911s that I had a failure. I don't expect it every 200-250 rounds, though, and certainly wouldn't trust my life to a gun that failed that often.
With my S&W revolvers, I realize that a failure is theoretically going to eventually happen, but I will be surprised if it does. I have had one gun related failure in a j-frame that locked up the cylinder and called for gunsmithing. Another time, I had a factory hollow-point 125 gr bullet jump the crimp and tie up the cylinder in a Model 36. It seems like it might have been a Super-Vel round that was the culprit.
I would bet you a month's salary that you could select any center-fire S&W revolver from my safe, and that I could fire a thousand rounds of factory .38 sp +p rounds without a failure. I would be extremely surprised if I had a failure. These guns are all box-stock with no polishing or "reliability packages" or anything. My Chief's Special does have a bobbed hammer. A thousand rounds of +p would probably loosen up a j-frame a lot, but I wouldn't expect it to fail.
As you can tell, I am a revolver man, specifically S&W. I have carried my 1911s concealed, but won't any more for several reasons. Reliability is a small part of it. Ease of concealment is next, but most of all, the older I get, the more I have come to appreciate the simplicity of a double action revolver.
I've been shooting nigh on to fifty years now. I had to google MRBF.
Is that a military term? Mean Rounds Before Failure?
Are you saying that you would carry a gun that failed every 250 rounds?
Possibly I am misinterpreting your statement, and what you mean is that 200-250 failure free rounds in a new gun are enough to prove reliability sufficiently for a carry gun. I agree, although I think 500-1000 rounds would be better. In any case, I am not trying to pick a fight. Just trying to learn.
I don't have a whole lot of experience with semi-autos. I have owned a WWII era 1911A1 for about 35 years, and have probably fired a couple of thousand rounds in that time, all factory and all hardball. No failures. My Norinco failed to fire once because I had not slapped home the magazine hard enough. It was practically new when that happened, and after everything "wore in," I have had no more problems. Incidentally, I have used cheap, gun show purchased mags in these two and never had any problems.
I owned, and carried on duty, a S&W Model 39-2 in the early 70's. I probably fired 2500 rounds through it in a couple of years. I had one stovepipe jam, for no apparent reason. Again, all factory ammo, and mostly hardball, although I fired several boxes of a couple of different hollow-point rounds. I always carried hardball on duty.
It sounds like many of you are expecting your semi-automatics to fail. I wouldn't be really shocked if the next time I shot one of my 1911s that I had a failure. I don't expect it every 200-250 rounds, though, and certainly wouldn't trust my life to a gun that failed that often.
With my S&W revolvers, I realize that a failure is theoretically going to eventually happen, but I will be surprised if it does. I have had one gun related failure in a j-frame that locked up the cylinder and called for gunsmithing. Another time, I had a factory hollow-point 125 gr bullet jump the crimp and tie up the cylinder in a Model 36. It seems like it might have been a Super-Vel round that was the culprit.
I would bet you a month's salary that you could select any center-fire S&W revolver from my safe, and that I could fire a thousand rounds of factory .38 sp +p rounds without a failure. I would be extremely surprised if I had a failure. These guns are all box-stock with no polishing or "reliability packages" or anything. My Chief's Special does have a bobbed hammer. A thousand rounds of +p would probably loosen up a j-frame a lot, but I wouldn't expect it to fail.
As you can tell, I am a revolver man, specifically S&W. I have carried my 1911s concealed, but won't any more for several reasons. Reliability is a small part of it. Ease of concealment is next, but most of all, the older I get, the more I have come to appreciate the simplicity of a double action revolver.
Here's the thing. Revolvers, in general, should be much less prone to malfunction than pistols. The fly in the ointment is that when a revolver fails, it tends to be an "oh, sh!t, my pistol is now completely useless" type of failure, whereas when a semi-auto fails, in most cases the failure can be cleared fairly easily.
CARGUY2244
Moderator
ccw failure
g-l-o-c-k
g-l-o-c-k
Me? Of course not. I'd attempt to find out just why the failure occurred. If it is my fault, or the fault of the ammo, then it would be stupid to get rid of it. If it is the fault of the gun itself, and yet that problem is easily repaired, then I'd be stupid to get rid of it.
Only if it is an "inherent" problem with the gun -- one that happens with enough frequency as to cast doubt on practical reliability and is not easily repairable. For instance, I once carried a gun that would begin to have feeding issues after it had been shot about 50 rounds after a good cleaning. I had no problem with this since it was always clean when I carried it, and I had nowhere near that much ammo on hand.
Only if it is an "inherent" problem with the gun -- one that happens with enough frequency as to cast doubt on practical reliability and is not easily repairable. For instance, I once carried a gun that would begin to have feeding issues after it had been shot about 50 rounds after a good cleaning. I had no problem with this since it was always clean when I carried it, and I had nowhere near that much ammo on hand.
natjohnb said:Call me a snob if you want.
I don't think you need to worry about me calling you that.
CARGUY2244 said:
I'll be dropping by the old shop to visit friends over Christmas. If you'll give me a mailing address, I'll see if I can't scare up a pile of barrels with sheared feet, broken trigger return springs, extractors with missing claws, and other parts you can arrange into a little shrine whose feng shui will help you meditate on Glock perfection.
gb_in_ga said:
Stop making sense! This is a gun forum on teh intarw3bz! You're not allowed to do that here!
Get you a Smith lightweight compact double action only revolver without a lock (preferably a 442 or like it)then.
Forget semi autos.
Otherwise,learn to do gun clearing drills with your semi auto's.
Every semi auto can jam.
Even some Smith revolvers with locks on them have locked up tight.
And just because you did your part by buying premium ammo,does'nt mean that one round did'nt get through that was slightly out of spec.
Forget semi autos.
Otherwise,learn to do gun clearing drills with your semi auto's.
Every semi auto can jam.
Even some Smith revolvers with locks on them have locked up tight.
And just because you did your part by buying premium ammo,does'nt mean that one round did'nt get through that was slightly out of spec.
ragingbullpa
Inactive
my 945b taurus
has over 1,000 rounds through it alternating between rem 230gr hp golden sabers and 230 fmj umc no malfunction i use nothing but Kano Silikroil to clean it and lube it , functions flawlessly
has over 1,000 rounds through it alternating between rem 230gr hp golden sabers and 230 fmj umc no malfunction i use nothing but Kano Silikroil to clean it and lube it , functions flawlessly
B.N. Real said:
...and pre-lock revolvers have ejector rods back out, cylinder release thumbpieces fall off, grains of powder or the rims of spent cases get caught under the ejector star, firing pins break, sights fall off...
Guns break. Guns malf. It's what they do. There are no magic swords.
The sad thing is, the reason I bought the Kel-tec in the first place was to replace the S&W 642 I sold to my dad (he really wanted it). I should have just bought another J-frame.
And as far as getting rid of a pistol after a single malf, look, I'm just a blue-collar guy with a wife, a kid on the way, and a lot of bills... I can't afford to have a collection; every one of my guns has a role to fulfill, and if I have a problem with it, and can't trust it, (especially an EDC gun) I have to replace it. If it had been my 1911 that had a failure, it would be worth my while to fix/figure out the problem. The Kel-tec, however, isn't worth the effort, IMO.
Could I be wrong condemning the Kel-tec? Possible.
Ammo out of spec? Again, possible.
User-induced malfunction? Possible, but not likely. I've been shooting a long time and I've been pretty good at spotting a user malf. In this instance, the mag was seated firmly, good/secure 2-hand grip, no digits engaging/touching the slide/lever/mag release, etc.
I was on-the-fence about Kel-tec's quality and this incident just made my mind up. So it's now gone. Am I wrong? Maybe.
And after more than a decade, I am once again a Glock-owner.
Today I picked up a Glock 26 w/ night sites...I am no Glock fan, but at least they TEND to be reliable.
<resisting urge to take Dremmel tool to yucky grip-frame>
imthegrumpyone
New member
natjohnb it's man made, it's not going to work perfect 100% of the time. I have P40 that I carry as well as a CW40, my wife, son in law and several others carry Kel-Tec's we all trust them with our lives.