I haved loved this movie for years. It was a real morale booster during my tour of duty in darktown. You can get a copy from Dillon. Interesting to see the comment by Futo. A lot of history is being re-written these days to fit the current politically correct social/political agenda. Hopefully this wasn't the intent, just merely lack of information.
Anybody watch Zulu last night?
- Thread starter MattC58
- Start date
tony stapleton
New member
You can get the Zulu soundtrack on
Silva SSD1095 "John Barry Zulu"
done by Prague Philharmonic. I thought
so much of the CD I bought two!!
Men of Harlech is sung on it and it
is great!!! I highly recommend it.
Silva SSD1095 "John Barry Zulu"
done by Prague Philharmonic. I thought
so much of the CD I bought two!!
Men of Harlech is sung on it and it
is great!!! I highly recommend it.
Hard Ball - I have mixed feelings about
"Zulu Dawn". Having read a lot about the Zulu wars, I was stoked that somebody was finally telling these great stories. Bummer - not quite up to "Zulu" IMHO.
Big brawny Burt Lancaster played Durnford, a little runty guy with one arm so withered he had to put the carbine between his knees and work the action with his good arm.
The Zulu prisoners giving false information leading to the disaster is pure Hollywood - never happened.
It happened because the Brits put their line out too far with 3 yards between each man. Then they compounded it by putting 300 Kaffirs armed with less than 30 Sniders at a critical "knuckle" in the line. When their 5 rounds each was expended, the Zulus slammed into them and breached the entire line.
Companies were blotted out in seconds. Out of 1800 men (950 Europeans and 850 Kaffirs), 53 Europeans and 300 Kaffirs survived.
And we talk about Custer's odds.
The biggest disappointment was how the movie glossed over the Endendale Contingent. With all the erzatz history the PC blacks dream up
to glorify themselves, I could never understand how they missed these guys.
They were Christianized natives, armed with Martinis instead of the usual Sniders, who
"retreated so aggressively" (now there's a phrase!) that the Zulus left them alone. The surviving whites clustered around them and were thereby saved. They weren't mentioned by name in the movie and their "retreat" wasn't shown. They only left the field, in good order, when their ammo ran out.
One of many oddities at Isandhlwana was the "high" survival rate of the officer engineers, who were in the thick of it. Cetshwayo had issued an order to "kill all the redcoats". The natives took him literally and left the engineers alone because they wore BLUE coats.
Another scene not shown, one which left you muttering "Geez" under your breath, was when the few surviving Brits tried to escape back down the road to Rorke's Drift. They ran into a WALL of Zulus blocking the road, squatting in ranks, waiting for the word. The survivors had little, if any, ammo. Someone barked, "fix bayonets (hello?), form into line!" I half expected a gung-ho "Geez, Sarge, do we take prisoners?"
The two sides looked at each other for a while and then the Zulus inexplicably rose and trotted off (maybe towards Rorke's Drift). I know I would have found Jesus twice over in that situation.
If you ever want to read epic stuff, read "Queen Victoria's Little Wars" (another great book) and/or "The Battle for the Bundu" (WWI Germans in East Africa). Pages and pages of "How the Hell are they gonna get out of this?"
Sometimes they didn't.
[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited June 29, 2000).]
"Zulu Dawn". Having read a lot about the Zulu wars, I was stoked that somebody was finally telling these great stories. Bummer - not quite up to "Zulu" IMHO.
Big brawny Burt Lancaster played Durnford, a little runty guy with one arm so withered he had to put the carbine between his knees and work the action with his good arm.
The Zulu prisoners giving false information leading to the disaster is pure Hollywood - never happened.
It happened because the Brits put their line out too far with 3 yards between each man. Then they compounded it by putting 300 Kaffirs armed with less than 30 Sniders at a critical "knuckle" in the line. When their 5 rounds each was expended, the Zulus slammed into them and breached the entire line.
Companies were blotted out in seconds. Out of 1800 men (950 Europeans and 850 Kaffirs), 53 Europeans and 300 Kaffirs survived.
And we talk about Custer's odds.
The biggest disappointment was how the movie glossed over the Endendale Contingent. With all the erzatz history the PC blacks dream up
to glorify themselves, I could never understand how they missed these guys.
They were Christianized natives, armed with Martinis instead of the usual Sniders, who
"retreated so aggressively" (now there's a phrase!) that the Zulus left them alone. The surviving whites clustered around them and were thereby saved. They weren't mentioned by name in the movie and their "retreat" wasn't shown. They only left the field, in good order, when their ammo ran out.
One of many oddities at Isandhlwana was the "high" survival rate of the officer engineers, who were in the thick of it. Cetshwayo had issued an order to "kill all the redcoats". The natives took him literally and left the engineers alone because they wore BLUE coats.
Another scene not shown, one which left you muttering "Geez" under your breath, was when the few surviving Brits tried to escape back down the road to Rorke's Drift. They ran into a WALL of Zulus blocking the road, squatting in ranks, waiting for the word. The survivors had little, if any, ammo. Someone barked, "fix bayonets (hello?), form into line!" I half expected a gung-ho "Geez, Sarge, do we take prisoners?"
The two sides looked at each other for a while and then the Zulus inexplicably rose and trotted off (maybe towards Rorke's Drift). I know I would have found Jesus twice over in that situation.
If you ever want to read epic stuff, read "Queen Victoria's Little Wars" (another great book) and/or "The Battle for the Bundu" (WWI Germans in East Africa). Pages and pages of "How the Hell are they gonna get out of this?"
Sometimes they didn't.
[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited June 29, 2000).]
Mike Irwin
Staff
There were a bunch of small things about Zulu that were wrong...
The revolvers Chard and Bromhead carried were definitely the wrong ones.
Most of the rifles were long-lever Martini-Henry rifles, which didn't enter service in large numbers until AFTER Rorke's Drift. The change was due, in part, to African experiences in which the short lever gun proved to be tough to operate once it got hot.
The soldiers were shown wrapping their thumbs around the wrist of the stock instead of putting them in the receiver scallop as was proper. Shooting that rifle with the thumb around the wrist virtually guaranteed a broken nose.
In one scene you can clearly see a soldier stuffing a .303 blank into his MH.
Soldiers in the background are carrying guns that are absolutely NOT the right period.
This relatively minor nits aside, it was a GREAT movie.
What REALLY surprised me was the showing of women's breasts at the beginning of the movie. Kind of risque for 1964, even if they were "ignorant savages" as the British called them.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
The revolvers Chard and Bromhead carried were definitely the wrong ones.
Most of the rifles were long-lever Martini-Henry rifles, which didn't enter service in large numbers until AFTER Rorke's Drift. The change was due, in part, to African experiences in which the short lever gun proved to be tough to operate once it got hot.
The soldiers were shown wrapping their thumbs around the wrist of the stock instead of putting them in the receiver scallop as was proper. Shooting that rifle with the thumb around the wrist virtually guaranteed a broken nose.
In one scene you can clearly see a soldier stuffing a .303 blank into his MH.
Soldiers in the background are carrying guns that are absolutely NOT the right period.
This relatively minor nits aside, it was a GREAT movie.
What REALLY surprised me was the showing of women's breasts at the beginning of the movie. Kind of risque for 1964, even if they were "ignorant savages" as the British called them.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Couple of things -
The scene where the runner reports to the chief that the Brits are approaching was reported to be hysterically funny to East African audiences. Seems that the technical advisor spoke Swahli and had the actor say (in Swahli) "I am not getting enough money for this scene"...... Wonder if that's a true story...
I spent an afternoon at Rourke's Drift and was impressed at the use of terrain by the Zulus. It dosen't show in the movie, but their approach and assult positions were superb. Maximum use of the rolling terrain was very evident.
The other interesting thing is that the Zulu folks are all large and fit. Made me happy to have a rifle along.
Giz
[This message has been edited by Gizmo99 (edited June 30, 2000).]
The scene where the runner reports to the chief that the Brits are approaching was reported to be hysterically funny to East African audiences. Seems that the technical advisor spoke Swahli and had the actor say (in Swahli) "I am not getting enough money for this scene"...... Wonder if that's a true story...
I spent an afternoon at Rourke's Drift and was impressed at the use of terrain by the Zulus. It dosen't show in the movie, but their approach and assult positions were superb. Maximum use of the rolling terrain was very evident.
The other interesting thing is that the Zulu folks are all large and fit. Made me happy to have a rifle along.
Giz
[This message has been edited by Gizmo99 (edited June 30, 2000).]
As a side note.
Each new VC is cast from the breech of a Russian cannon captured during the Crimean War, scene of the ill fated Charge of The Light Brigade. It is held under tight security at a London jewellers who have the Royal Warrant and are the only people allowed to cast new medals. I remembered this info. from waaay back but I'm pretty sure it's accurate.
The British handed out VC's like confetti after the Falklands conflict, a colonel was awarded one posthumously after leading a charge against enemy held bunkers when he should have been in the rear directing the assault. He was killed by fire from a bunker he hadn't noticed and had run past, at the time, his platoon sergeant was pleading with him to return to the rear. Many feel the award was devalued after this "war", rest assured that those who earned a VC in WWI performed heroics that were often beyond belief.
I also remember reading recently that there was a reason the Zulu did not press home their attacks on Rorkes Drift and simply overwhelm the massively outnumbered, if better armed, British. Whatever the reason, it was adjudged to be a tactical error that cost them the battle, doh.
Mike H
Each new VC is cast from the breech of a Russian cannon captured during the Crimean War, scene of the ill fated Charge of The Light Brigade. It is held under tight security at a London jewellers who have the Royal Warrant and are the only people allowed to cast new medals. I remembered this info. from waaay back but I'm pretty sure it's accurate.
The British handed out VC's like confetti after the Falklands conflict, a colonel was awarded one posthumously after leading a charge against enemy held bunkers when he should have been in the rear directing the assault. He was killed by fire from a bunker he hadn't noticed and had run past, at the time, his platoon sergeant was pleading with him to return to the rear. Many feel the award was devalued after this "war", rest assured that those who earned a VC in WWI performed heroics that were often beyond belief.
I also remember reading recently that there was a reason the Zulu did not press home their attacks on Rorkes Drift and simply overwhelm the massively outnumbered, if better armed, British. Whatever the reason, it was adjudged to be a tactical error that cost them the battle, doh.
Mike H
David Scott
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 416Rigby:
The 577/450 Martini Henry rifle, of which I possess a fine example made by WW Greener, shoots a 480-gr paper-patch lead bullet at a respectable 1,500 f/s.
[/quote]
In other words, about twice the weight of a .45 ACP at nearly twice the velocity. Sounds like it would suck the intestines right out the exit wound. Gives you a little perspective, doesn't it?
The 577/450 Martini Henry rifle, of which I possess a fine example made by WW Greener
, shoots a 480-gr paper-patch lead bullet at a respectable 1,500 f/s.[/quote]
In other words, about twice the weight of a .45 ACP at nearly twice the velocity. Sounds like it would suck the intestines right out the exit wound. Gives you a little perspective, doesn't it?