Anybody ever shot a .357 in self defense?
- Thread starter Lo-khem
- Start date
No experience but..
.. I can only assume that the sheer noise that a .357 mag. makes would be enough to scare any BG away. Despite the small bullet size, it makes a pretty loud KA-BOOM!!! (I own a .357 mag Ruger SP 101) So if I were a BG trying to break into someones place or assault someone, I get fired at with a .357 mag. and they missed me, I'd most likely look for a different target. Heck, even if it was only a .22 being fired at me I'd reconsider my target choice. No matter the size or speed of a bullet, they all make holes and the human body doesn't respond to well to having holes punched into it the last time I checked.
.. I can only assume that the sheer noise that a .357 mag. makes would be enough to scare any BG away. Despite the small bullet size, it makes a pretty loud KA-BOOM!!! (I own a .357 mag Ruger SP 101) So if I were a BG trying to break into someones place or assault someone, I get fired at with a .357 mag. and they missed me, I'd most likely look for a different target. Heck, even if it was only a .22 being fired at me I'd reconsider my target choice. No matter the size or speed of a bullet, they all make holes and the human body doesn't respond to well to having holes punched into it the last time I checked.
Radicalcleric
New member
Have I ever shot a .357 in self-defense? No. I have never been attacked by one.
Seriously, in a defensive shooting situation you probably won't even hear the gun. When we are in the "fight or flight" mode our senses begin to shut down. You focus on the threat with tunnel-vision, and hearing diminishes until loud noises are barely perceived.
Seriously, in a defensive shooting situation you probably won't even hear the gun. When we are in the "fight or flight" mode our senses begin to shut down. You focus on the threat with tunnel-vision, and hearing diminishes until loud noises are barely perceived.
No.
There are many instances of where a .357 hit didn't stop a perp. It's not a one shot stopper any more than any other handgun round is.
True, a .357 has a greater liklihood of a one shot stop than a .32 all other things being equal, but the important thing is WHERE the perp gets hit.
Placement is the key. And you get accurate placement through practice.
Don't depend on a .357 Magnum as being the ultimate handgun round, because so many other things depend on you.
As Sam says:
Tis the shooter....
There are many instances of where a .357 hit didn't stop a perp. It's not a one shot stopper any more than any other handgun round is.
True, a .357 has a greater liklihood of a one shot stop than a .32 all other things being equal, but the important thing is WHERE the perp gets hit.
Placement is the key. And you get accurate placement through practice.
Don't depend on a .357 Magnum as being the ultimate handgun round, because so many other things depend on you.
As Sam says:
Tis the shooter....
riddleofsteel
New member
Situation:
I was making my way back to my vehicle with a lady friend. We had just left a new and rather trendy club that was an old renovated warehouse. The club's parking lot was full and we ended up parking on the street in the next block.
It was fairly late but there were some people out in front of the club. As we moved toward the end of the block I noticed that two guys were following us. They continued to close the distance between us and when they were a few car lengths away one of them shouted at me.
"Hay man. Have you got a cigarette?"
Not willing to allow them to get any closer, I kinda hollared back.
"No we don't"
Looking back over my shoulder I saw one of the guys pull a dark handgun from his waistband. Just then I noticed a long narrow alley that led to the street were my truck was located. Grabbing my lady friend by the arm I pulled/guided her into the alley. I was holding my truck keys in my right hand. I handed them to her and told her to make a run for the truck. I was hoping that these guys did not have an accomplist at the other end of the alley.
I still remember the sound of her hard bottom shoes as she took off for the distant end of the alley. At this point I had already drawn my 2" Colt Python .357 with my left/dominant hand. Stepping back against the wall of the alley I saw the two guys standing at the alley entrance, backlit by the street lights. All I remember now was seeing one of them lift his arm as if to draw a bead on me.
When I fired the old style 125 grain SJHP .357 load went off like a cannon. In the narrow darkened alley I produced a bright orange gas jet at least two feet long. There was a BOOOMMMM and an instant case of tinnitus that has not fully abated to this day. In my mind's eye I still have the image of two guys backlit by the street lights, one of them with a raised arm pointed in my direction. The next image was one of them jerking sidways, perhaps hit, perhaps to duck or in response to the report of the .357.
After the shot I had lost a good bit of night vision but I could still tell the end of the alley was empty now. I turned and ran to my truck and found my lady friend had it started and was behind the wheel. I could not hear a damn thing she was saying but I remember telling her thank you for at least waiting for me.
Note: The time period here was when I was in my early 20's. Legal CCW in N.C. was not even a dream then. The nickle plated Colt Python .357 I was carrying was purchased from a friend of a friend and was the only combat handgun I owned for over a decade. It was not that I was a criminal but let's just say I did not want any unrequired legal entanglements at that time. I never reported the incident and my friend tells me she still has nightmares. We stopped dating a short time after the incident.
My vision was normal in a few minutes. The tennitus made almost completely deaf for about 1/2 hour and slowly abated after that. I still have low level whine in both ears 26 years later.
I was making my way back to my vehicle with a lady friend. We had just left a new and rather trendy club that was an old renovated warehouse. The club's parking lot was full and we ended up parking on the street in the next block.
It was fairly late but there were some people out in front of the club. As we moved toward the end of the block I noticed that two guys were following us. They continued to close the distance between us and when they were a few car lengths away one of them shouted at me.
"Hay man. Have you got a cigarette?"
Not willing to allow them to get any closer, I kinda hollared back.
"No we don't"
Looking back over my shoulder I saw one of the guys pull a dark handgun from his waistband. Just then I noticed a long narrow alley that led to the street were my truck was located. Grabbing my lady friend by the arm I pulled/guided her into the alley. I was holding my truck keys in my right hand. I handed them to her and told her to make a run for the truck. I was hoping that these guys did not have an accomplist at the other end of the alley.
I still remember the sound of her hard bottom shoes as she took off for the distant end of the alley. At this point I had already drawn my 2" Colt Python .357 with my left/dominant hand. Stepping back against the wall of the alley I saw the two guys standing at the alley entrance, backlit by the street lights. All I remember now was seeing one of them lift his arm as if to draw a bead on me.
When I fired the old style 125 grain SJHP .357 load went off like a cannon. In the narrow darkened alley I produced a bright orange gas jet at least two feet long. There was a BOOOMMMM and an instant case of tinnitus that has not fully abated to this day. In my mind's eye I still have the image of two guys backlit by the street lights, one of them with a raised arm pointed in my direction. The next image was one of them jerking sidways, perhaps hit, perhaps to duck or in response to the report of the .357.
After the shot I had lost a good bit of night vision but I could still tell the end of the alley was empty now. I turned and ran to my truck and found my lady friend had it started and was behind the wheel. I could not hear a damn thing she was saying but I remember telling her thank you for at least waiting for me.
Note: The time period here was when I was in my early 20's. Legal CCW in N.C. was not even a dream then. The nickle plated Colt Python .357 I was carrying was purchased from a friend of a friend and was the only combat handgun I owned for over a decade. It was not that I was a criminal but let's just say I did not want any unrequired legal entanglements at that time. I never reported the incident and my friend tells me she still has nightmares. We stopped dating a short time after the incident.
My vision was normal in a few minutes. The tennitus made almost completely deaf for about 1/2 hour and slowly abated after that. I still have low level whine in both ears 26 years later.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Yeah, I shot a rogue .357 a couple of years ago.
It was coming right for me!
It was coming right for me!
In Chic Gaylord's book, "Handgunner's Guide", he tells of a holster customer who was a cop in Rochester, NY. This would have been circa 1960. The cop hit a perp five or six times in the chest with a .357 using the original lead SWC bullets. I can't recall just what all transpired then, and haven't time to look it up just now, but it wasn't a quick stop and the cop was disgusted. He began carrying a .45 Colt SAA! Figured that the big, heavy .45 bullet wouldn't just whistle on through without immediate effect.
I met a Dallas cop who whacked a perp several times in the back (through the chest; all bullets exited) with a Smith M29 .44 Mag. I think he used 240 grain JHP's; don't recall the brand. The guy ran another block or more before collapsing. He went to a M19 and hoped that the lighter (I think Super-Vel bullets) would open quicker and do more good, rapidly.
Based on all that I've read over 30 odd years, I have great faith in the .357 with 158 grain Hydra-Shok bullets, and I carry that in my M66 on duty. A Federal PR man told me that he KNOWS that it's effective on deer, but didn't personally know of any humans shot with it. He doubted there would be much difference between it and their 140 grain (not sure they still make that load) on men; either would be so effective that a bad guy wouldn't know the difference. I think the idea is to hit where there's tough muscle tissue, like the heart or pelvis, with liquid in the intestines. Lung hits might be less effective.
Lone Star
I met a Dallas cop who whacked a perp several times in the back (through the chest; all bullets exited) with a Smith M29 .44 Mag. I think he used 240 grain JHP's; don't recall the brand. The guy ran another block or more before collapsing. He went to a M19 and hoped that the lighter (I think Super-Vel bullets) would open quicker and do more good, rapidly.
Based on all that I've read over 30 odd years, I have great faith in the .357 with 158 grain Hydra-Shok bullets, and I carry that in my M66 on duty. A Federal PR man told me that he KNOWS that it's effective on deer, but didn't personally know of any humans shot with it. He doubted there would be much difference between it and their 140 grain (not sure they still make that load) on men; either would be so effective that a bad guy wouldn't know the difference. I think the idea is to hit where there's tough muscle tissue, like the heart or pelvis, with liquid in the intestines. Lung hits might be less effective.
Lone Star
thecreeper23
Inactive
Lone Star,
I find it disturbing that your cop-aquaintance shot someone in the back. Is there more to the story?
I find it disturbing that your cop-aquaintance shot someone in the back. Is there more to the story?
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I still have low level whine in both ears 26 years later."
I had that for a number of years, too.
It stopped when I got divorced, though...
I had that for a number of years, too.
It stopped when I got divorced, though...
There are two legitimate reasons for a cop to shoot somebody in the back that I know of:
1) Gunfight in progress, and the BG moves towards cover as a tactical thing, gun still in hand.
2) BG is such a violent threat to society that preventing him from running away outweighs all other considerations. At this point "immediate danger to the cop" (or lack thereof) is a non-issue. Shooting a running purse-snatcher in the back would be criminal on the cop's part; shooting a fleeing "Hannibal Lechter wannabe" in the back would not. Murderers, rapists, kidnappers, child molesters (and "attempteds") would fall into the latter category.
1) Gunfight in progress, and the BG moves towards cover as a tactical thing, gun still in hand.
2) BG is such a violent threat to society that preventing him from running away outweighs all other considerations. At this point "immediate danger to the cop" (or lack thereof) is a non-issue. Shooting a running purse-snatcher in the back would be criminal on the cop's part; shooting a fleeing "Hannibal Lechter wannabe" in the back would not. Murderers, rapists, kidnappers, child molesters (and "attempteds") would fall into the latter category.
jimsbowies
New member
6 rounds
To center of mass to a BG nearly 25 years ago....357 S&W, Model 28, somewhat of a "built" gun with nice trigger, sights, etc.....
The BG had just attempted to kill two LEO's, shot one Deputy Sheriff and came out of a hiding place with his pistol a'blazing.
Don't know which one of the 6 rounds did him in but I shot until "empty". He never said a word!
To center of mass to a BG nearly 25 years ago....357 S&W, Model 28, somewhat of a "built" gun with nice trigger, sights, etc.....
The BG had just attempted to kill two LEO's, shot one Deputy Sheriff and came out of a hiding place with his pistol a'blazing.
Don't know which one of the 6 rounds did him in but I shot until "empty". He never said a word!
Blue Duck357
New member
Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)
Till this decision it was perfectly legal and acceptable in many states to use lethal force to stop to stop a fleeing felon. Court made clear in it's ruling that it was still justifiable under conditions such as Jim March mentioned.
Just because a shot goes in the back doesn't necessarily mean it's either legally or morally unjustified despite the Lone Ranger ethics thing
PsychoSword
Moderator
That's a cool crazy story riddle. I just can't believe you still have hearing problems 35 years later from that one .357 shot in the alley. I sometimes shoot my .41 magnum Taurus 415T and the pistol range without any ear protection and it never bothers me for more than a half hour later. (Usually I wear earplugs though).
Yes, he had justification. I don't recall the details at this date, but believe the guy was running from an armed robbery and was deemed a threat to the public.
Since I last posted, I recall another cop who popped a bad guy with a .357. The officer had responded to a robbery-in- progress call at a convenience store. When he and another unit arrived, the second officer took off after one crook and the guy I knew (we were in high school together) struggled with the other of the two bad guys. That individual wrested the officer's shotgun away from him and began whamming him over the head with it. He drew a S&W M28 (I think it had a six-inch bbl.) and fired at the guy just as he passed out. He was in immediate fear for his life.
When he came to, he was told that he got off with a concussion and bruises. The thug took a handloaded 125 grain Sierra bullet in the side. It followed a rib around and exited the man's back, doing a lot of damage along the way. I think this guy lived and was sentenced to a lengthy term.
My friend wasn't supposed to be using handloads even then, and this was probably circa 1980. I recall that it was on the TV news that night, and I asked him about it later. The bit about the handload never came up, so he skated on that, but began carrying factory ammo. I think he mentioned going to a 158 grain bullet, in hopes that if he hit someone that way again, it might just break the rib and penetrate.
The part about that bullet following the rib around and exiting may seem strange, but the late Col. Charles Askins ran across a similar case, in which an American GI was shot in the head by a German with a P-38 during the massacre by the SS at Malmedy. The 9mm bullet did the same thing on his skull, and he was later recovered and treated by American medics. What must be the odds on shots like this?!
Remember: if you ever have to choose whether to shoot someone in the back, cops in many states get away with stuff that may get the ordinary citizen in deep trouble. It's probably best to not do it unless you can tell the investigators that the man apparently was just changing position to better fire at you or was turning to menace an innocent third party.
Lone Star
Since I last posted, I recall another cop who popped a bad guy with a .357. The officer had responded to a robbery-in- progress call at a convenience store. When he and another unit arrived, the second officer took off after one crook and the guy I knew (we were in high school together) struggled with the other of the two bad guys. That individual wrested the officer's shotgun away from him and began whamming him over the head with it. He drew a S&W M28 (I think it had a six-inch bbl.) and fired at the guy just as he passed out. He was in immediate fear for his life.
When he came to, he was told that he got off with a concussion and bruises. The thug took a handloaded 125 grain Sierra bullet in the side. It followed a rib around and exited the man's back, doing a lot of damage along the way. I think this guy lived and was sentenced to a lengthy term.
My friend wasn't supposed to be using handloads even then, and this was probably circa 1980. I recall that it was on the TV news that night, and I asked him about it later. The bit about the handload never came up, so he skated on that, but began carrying factory ammo. I think he mentioned going to a 158 grain bullet, in hopes that if he hit someone that way again, it might just break the rib and penetrate.
The part about that bullet following the rib around and exiting may seem strange, but the late Col. Charles Askins ran across a similar case, in which an American GI was shot in the head by a German with a P-38 during the massacre by the SS at Malmedy. The 9mm bullet did the same thing on his skull, and he was later recovered and treated by American medics. What must be the odds on shots like this?!
Remember: if you ever have to choose whether to shoot someone in the back, cops in many states get away with stuff that may get the ordinary citizen in deep trouble. It's probably best to not do it unless you can tell the investigators that the man apparently was just changing position to better fire at you or was turning to menace an innocent third party.
Lone Star
Hearing loss is cumulative over the course of your life. You get that ringing in your ears for a little while, then it goes away, so does a little of your hearing ability. The loss is not usually noticeable from one incident to another, but if you had a hearing test done as a base line before any damage was done, then another test after a few range sessions without plugs, you would see that some of your hearing has been lost. Once hearing is lost it cannot be regained.