Any opinions on the H&K USP?
- Thread starter houndawg
- Start date
My wife got me a HK USP40 compact for Christmas and to say that I love it would be an understatement. I have put about 300 factory rounds through it and about 300 handloads without even ONE failure of any type. I tested it firing on its side, barely holding on to simulate the worst possible case of limp writs/forearm etc. It just works. I've shot several groups of ten in the sub 2 inch at 15 yds category ... it is definately more accurate than I am! As many will tell you (especially the Sig fans) the double action is a pretty hard pull. My only beef, design wise is that the cool lock that HK supplies with the gun (one of those that threads through the barrel) can't be used in the molded case they provide. Overall a pretty minor ... and I'm a perfectionist.
Hope this helps,
Saands
Hope this helps,
Saands
I owned one in 45acp in a variant #1. Nothing but good things i'd say about that whole weapon!! i sold it and got a Glock model 20 [10mm] and am quitw pleased with that weapon too. If H&K made one of there pistols in 10mm i'd be owning one of them. If i bought another 45 it would be a compact model for CC CARRY
My general opinion on HK is that they are all WAY overpriced... much more so than Glocks. Glocks cost too much for what you get also, but they are far more reasonable.
Save your money and go for one of those P-series Rugers. Or spend some real money and get a Sig. There's no reason to be paying $600.00 for plastic IMO. I guarantee you the Ruger will hold up just as long as ANY of those... if not longer.
I must have ticked off some one,
Ben
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AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
Save your money and go for one of those P-series Rugers. Or spend some real money and get a Sig. There's no reason to be paying $600.00 for plastic IMO. I guarantee you the Ruger will hold up just as long as ANY of those... if not longer.
I must have ticked off some one,
Ben
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AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
i have a hk usp9, variant 1 and an all-nickel sig p228. both are excellent guns, however, i prefer the sig over the hk, mainly because the sig trigger is smoother. both guns have heavy da pulls, nice sa pulls, but the hk feels a little more "mechanical", if you know what i mean.
i also prefer the sig because the slightly smaller frame fits my small hand a bit better, but that's more a function of compact vs. full-size.
i also prefer the sig because the slightly smaller frame fits my small hand a bit better, but that's more a function of compact vs. full-size.
Gopher a 45
New member
I bought a USP 45C, and I like it very much. I too thought it was pricey and I'm not a big fan of "polymer" (read: plastic) but mine has held up through over 5000 rounds of ammo from light target to heavy (read: stupid) loads. For me, it was mostly ergonomics that sold me. It fits my hand really well, but that will vary from person to person. Also, I like the controls a lot. The safety/decocker is very positive without being too hard to activate/deactivate (I've never had it disengage while carrying in a number of ways) and it's in a good location (again, for my hands). It's accurate, reliable with all brands of factory ammo I've tried (haven't tried the cheap Eastern Bloc stuff though) and virtually all my handloads (it didn't want to eat SWCs until I polished the feed ramp a little). The DA trigger pull is not good, but Sig is about the same, but I carry condition one anyhow, so I don't care all that much. The mag release takes a little getting used to, especially if you're used to a 1911! In short, it's a good pistol, but your needs may vary, so my suggestion is to ignore all the verbiage you get here at TFL and see if you can try (rent?) before you buy and see what's right for you.
John
John
I don't have a whole lot of exper. with the USPs. I did rent a USP45c three times while I was making my "1st pistol" decision. I went with SIG. The SIGs just felt better to me. Also, there are many different SIGs (in both caliber and size) so that there is one for any application, and they all have exactly the same controls and manual of arms. I like that a lot. I can go from a P225 to a P228 to a P245, and I know that they are all going to operate in the same way, every time.
I just liked SIG's product better. Try them both out. I know you get that a lot, but it's the only way to go. I went into the gun shop the first time fixed on buying a USP9, but after trying out the SIGs... well.. different story. But seriously, try them both out, and buy what fits you best. You won't ose or get good with the gun if you are not comfortable with it.
-Tim
I just liked SIG's product better. Try them both out. I know you get that a lot, but it's the only way to go. I went into the gun shop the first time fixed on buying a USP9, but after trying out the SIGs... well.. different story. But seriously, try them both out, and buy what fits you best. You won't ose or get good with the gun if you are not comfortable with it.
-Tim
I bought a USP40. It meets my two most important criteria - 1.) fits my had well, even better with a hogue slip on grip. 2.) It is extremely reliable. I've fired 1000 rounds through it without a single failure. One thing to beware of is if you clean it with one of the spray on gun cleaners like Gun Scrubber - it will take the paint off the markings for the safety.
USPs are:
Reliable
Rugged
Accurate
As to "value," well...everyone has their own interpretation of value.
I had a full size .45 USP and put thousands of rounds through it. In practical terms it was very accurate. It never malfunctioned. I thought the controls were well thought out and user friendly- for me. The only reason I sold it was that I thought it "a bit large," but that's a personal preference. I would consider another USP, but next time in the compact size.
Erik
Reliable
Rugged
Accurate
As to "value," well...everyone has their own interpretation of value.
I had a full size .45 USP and put thousands of rounds through it. In practical terms it was very accurate. It never malfunctioned. I thought the controls were well thought out and user friendly- for me. The only reason I sold it was that I thought it "a bit large," but that's a personal preference. I would consider another USP, but next time in the compact size.
Erik
i carried the sig226 as a duty weapon for almost 2 years and a year ago switched to the usp.45. the sig is without a doubt an outstanding weapon with a better trigger pull in both single and double action. however some of it's control springs are thin and not somthing i am willing to bet my life on. add to that the continuing trend of sig to reduce the quality of it parts and you end up with a large number of cracked slide and frame rails that our agency has experienced with factory new guns after less than 500 rounds, the h&k on the other hand has a rather beefy controls inside. and the slide is milled from a single piece of steel and is incredibly strong. as to the so called "plastic gun" arguments, our swat team could not destroy the glock they were given for evalutation without the use of tools, this even included running it over repeatedly with a truck. the h&k double action trigger pull is terrible but with practice you can overcome the it's disadvantages. they are both outstanding weapons but it is the h&k usp that i put my life on the line with.
When I was shopping for a new 9mm handgun. I had narrowed it down to the Sig 239 and the HK USP9c. I felt both and the HK felt the best in my hand. So I bought the HK and haven't regretted it since. Of course, it's possible that the Sig will feel better in YOUR hand.
Other things to consider:
The HK controls have a similar layout to 1911 style pistols. The Sig has the safety and decock reversed from what it is on the 1911. If you are familiar with the 1911 layout, you will probably like the HK layout more. Maybe I'm just nitpicking here, but I like all my controls in the same general location.
My suggestion:
Decide on a calier and frame size. Pick the HK and Sig that match your caliber and frame size requirements. Do the "A or B" test. Pretty much handle both (maybe shoot both if you can rent them) and go with your best gut feeling.
Good luck!
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"Ray guns don't vaporize Zorbonians, Zorbonians vaporize Zorbonians" The Far Side
Other things to consider:
The HK controls have a similar layout to 1911 style pistols. The Sig has the safety and decock reversed from what it is on the 1911. If you are familiar with the 1911 layout, you will probably like the HK layout more. Maybe I'm just nitpicking here, but I like all my controls in the same general location.
My suggestion:
Decide on a calier and frame size. Pick the HK and Sig that match your caliber and frame size requirements. Do the "A or B" test. Pretty much handle both (maybe shoot both if you can rent them) and go with your best gut feeling.
Good luck!
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"Ray guns don't vaporize Zorbonians, Zorbonians vaporize Zorbonians" The Far Side
I have an HK USP .45 full sized. Rugged is an understatement. It is accurate as well, and feeds anything I put in it. Controls and features work well for me. Rail on front os nice to hang tac light from. I have tried to torture test my HK by dipping it in water, and freezing it inside my ruck during a winter hike. (dumped the water from bbl first). It shot fine. Mud tested it also. Worked fine. My only complaint is that mags are expensive.
"the continuing trend of sig to reduce the quality of it parts and you end up with a large number of cracked slide and frame rails that our agency has experienced with factory new guns after less than 500 rounds"
I certainly don't intend to cast doubt on your claims, but I've never heard of this, and certainly not with the newer P226s. Yes, older P226s had problems with frame cracking, but this rarely showed up until after the 5,000 mark and more commonly at the 30,000 or so rounds mark. I've shot and handled several 9mm P226s and P228s and I can tell you some frame wear is natural, once the slide and frame mate this ends. This results from the tight tolerances between the two units. I am very suprised by what you say. Could you please post pictures of these pistols, perhaps greater detail such as what ammo was used, as well as what agency experienced this?
Between H&K and SIG Sauer I would opt for the latter. I find the trigger pulls smoother, reliability superb, I've never eperienced a single problems after several thousands rounds fired from 9mm P226/P228s, and I find their weight and balance optimal. Fire both and get what fits you best. If after this you still cannot make up your mind then consider customer service. On the whole I find SIG Arms customer service gets top rating. If you need spare parts such as worn springs and such a call will get them shipped to your home free. OTH I tried to calling, writing and faxing H&K about whether it was safe to dry fire a USP. Six months later I'm still waiting for a reply. In honesty I must say that H&K has a very good reputation of servicing LEO agencies, so if you're a police officer this may not be an issue.
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So many pistols, so little money.
I certainly don't intend to cast doubt on your claims, but I've never heard of this, and certainly not with the newer P226s. Yes, older P226s had problems with frame cracking, but this rarely showed up until after the 5,000 mark and more commonly at the 30,000 or so rounds mark. I've shot and handled several 9mm P226s and P228s and I can tell you some frame wear is natural, once the slide and frame mate this ends. This results from the tight tolerances between the two units. I am very suprised by what you say. Could you please post pictures of these pistols, perhaps greater detail such as what ammo was used, as well as what agency experienced this?
Between H&K and SIG Sauer I would opt for the latter. I find the trigger pulls smoother, reliability superb, I've never eperienced a single problems after several thousands rounds fired from 9mm P226/P228s, and I find their weight and balance optimal. Fire both and get what fits you best. If after this you still cannot make up your mind then consider customer service. On the whole I find SIG Arms customer service gets top rating. If you need spare parts such as worn springs and such a call will get them shipped to your home free. OTH I tried to calling, writing and faxing H&K about whether it was safe to dry fire a USP. Six months later I'm still waiting for a reply. In honesty I must say that H&K has a very good reputation of servicing LEO agencies, so if you're a police officer this may not be an issue.
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So many pistols, so little money.
I have 2 USP's 
.
When I was first shopping for my new pistol I too came down to a choice between the Sig and the USP. I had the opportunity to place them side by side, pick them up in my hand and work the "control" levers (safety, slide release). I chose the USP because of the way it just fit my hand like a glove. I also feel the USP has more ergonomig controls than the Sig - for me.
I have the Variant 1. Thumb presses up to apply safety. Thumb down one "position" for FIRE, and thumb all the way down for the de-cock feature. Since it is a more ergonomic motion to "thumb down", any manuever in the "thumbs down" position will allow you to fire the weapon. You will either be on the SAFE position or, if you should over travel your thumb at worst you will engage the de-cocker - and still be ready to fire.
If I had to do it again I would most likely get the Variant 3 - SAFE and de-cock only. I rarely ever use the SAFE position.
Good luck deciding. You'll love the USP.
CMOS
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GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!
.When I was first shopping for my new pistol I too came down to a choice between the Sig and the USP. I had the opportunity to place them side by side, pick them up in my hand and work the "control" levers (safety, slide release). I chose the USP because of the way it just fit my hand like a glove. I also feel the USP has more ergonomig controls than the Sig - for me.
I have the Variant 1. Thumb presses up to apply safety. Thumb down one "position" for FIRE, and thumb all the way down for the de-cock feature. Since it is a more ergonomic motion to "thumb down", any manuever in the "thumbs down" position will allow you to fire the weapon. You will either be on the SAFE position or, if you should over travel your thumb at worst you will engage the de-cocker - and still be ready to fire.
If I had to do it again I would most likely get the Variant 3 - SAFE and de-cock only. I rarely ever use the SAFE position.
Good luck deciding. You'll love the USP.
CMOS
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GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!
I just got the USP 9 fullsize variant 3(decocker only) and I love it. I didn't like the way Sigs felt in my hand so I never considered them seriously. Have a load of experience with 92FS and a little with the Glocks but the USP is way better in my opinion! It's got the best of both, polymer frame for weight, external controls for safety, and it'll outshoot them both. 
Hey guys why carry all those low quality , sigs with the cracked slides, and degraded parts......WHY HECK SELL THE TO ME AS SALVAGE. I will add the to my collection....Sigs are probably the best guns out there with all things considered ,quality, service,resale, the reason more departments dont issue them is that they cost a little more than glock........
Had a Sig P220. Sold it for a Glock 30.
Own and cherish a Sig 226 with several hi caps.
If this gun is a CC or self defense gun, why buy a gun with a safety like a 1911?
Get a sig or a glock. Tons of support, accessories, and opinions on what to do.
Have you ever seen any gathering of people on the net who regularly talk about USPs. Heck no. The only place is the hk-forum with only 438 members and a third to half of them talk about the our P7s.
I'm not one to go with the flow but it's hard to swim upstream. The Glock and Sigs sites have lots of info and supporters.
Many of the LE officers and agents are carrying Glocks or Sigs on duty. There's also a reason for that. USPs just don't rise to that level of following.
Get a Glock or a Sig. USPs may be nice for those 1911 folks out there but HK designed them as cheaper alternatives to attack the Glock/Sig LE sales.
If you want an HK, get a P7 or a SOCOM - then you're getting what you paid for.
Otherwise you're buying the bad idea - the Glock 36 - a single stack 45 that is positioned against glock's best selling 45, the Glock 30 - or the Kahr P9 - a polymer Kahr aimed at the glock 26/27 market - bad move - those heavy Kahrs were fine just the way they made them the first time - just drop the price a tad.
Oh . . . another important point . . . it's easy to find Glock and Sig armerors and gunsmiths, but not as easy to find an HK armorer. what you gonna do ... what you gonna do .. when your USP breaks down?
Glock or Sig, resistence is futile. You will be assimilated.
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The Seattle SharpShooter
Own and cherish a Sig 226 with several hi caps.
If this gun is a CC or self defense gun, why buy a gun with a safety like a 1911?
Get a sig or a glock. Tons of support, accessories, and opinions on what to do.
Have you ever seen any gathering of people on the net who regularly talk about USPs. Heck no. The only place is the hk-forum with only 438 members and a third to half of them talk about the our P7s.
I'm not one to go with the flow but it's hard to swim upstream. The Glock and Sigs sites have lots of info and supporters.
Many of the LE officers and agents are carrying Glocks or Sigs on duty. There's also a reason for that. USPs just don't rise to that level of following.
Get a Glock or a Sig. USPs may be nice for those 1911 folks out there but HK designed them as cheaper alternatives to attack the Glock/Sig LE sales.
If you want an HK, get a P7 or a SOCOM - then you're getting what you paid for.
Otherwise you're buying the bad idea - the Glock 36 - a single stack 45 that is positioned against glock's best selling 45, the Glock 30 - or the Kahr P9 - a polymer Kahr aimed at the glock 26/27 market - bad move - those heavy Kahrs were fine just the way they made them the first time - just drop the price a tad.
Oh . . . another important point . . . it's easy to find Glock and Sig armerors and gunsmiths, but not as easy to find an HK armorer. what you gonna do ... what you gonna do .. when your USP breaks down?
Glock or Sig, resistence is futile. You will be assimilated.
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The Seattle SharpShooter
Hey there hound!
I have done about 6 months of research, and these were the finalists for me:
HK USP .40, Glock 23, Sig P229, and SigPro SP2340.
First, about the HK's. They are dependable, super reliable, and the cocked and locked feature with integrated decocker is great. But I found it to be quite big and bulky (Very bulky) and was not as smooth ergonimically as say a P229. Not by a longshot.
The Glock, the grip angle is a big excessive. That makes for a bad wrist angle, and thus increases muzzle climb, when your wrist will fight to return to it's natural position.
The Sig P229, SWEET. That's all I can say about it. MUCH smoother trigger, and the most ergonomically correct gun of the bunch.
The Sig Pro 2340 is pretty cool. Everything on it is a bit more heavy duty than the P229. The polymer meant cheaper $$$ and less felt recoil vs. the P229. Integrated decocking lever is also in a snag free design. And because it's a sig, you know it's ergonimically correct and gives you a "tactile" feel as your bullet leaves the chamber that you don't get from other brands of guns. Have you driven a BMW or an Audi or a Porsche? You know the "feel" that is so distinctly German that you can't describe, but Honda tried to capture but didn't? Well, that's the same thing with the Sig's. There's a "feel"that you get from the Sig's you can't get from other guns.
So my pick was the SigPro 2340.
Keep in mind though, Sig, Glock, HK, there is no "BAD" gun in the group, just personal preference.
A little bit to keep an eye out for, I was looking at .40's I don't know what caliber you are looking at. But I was a bit hesitant about the Glocks because their .40's aren't fully supported barrels and I fear Kb! Before Glock people start bashing me, if you don't feel it a diet of reloads and +p+ stuff, there should be no worries.
Shoot safe, and let us know what you get.
Albert
I have done about 6 months of research, and these were the finalists for me:
HK USP .40, Glock 23, Sig P229, and SigPro SP2340.
First, about the HK's. They are dependable, super reliable, and the cocked and locked feature with integrated decocker is great. But I found it to be quite big and bulky (Very bulky) and was not as smooth ergonimically as say a P229. Not by a longshot.
The Glock, the grip angle is a big excessive. That makes for a bad wrist angle, and thus increases muzzle climb, when your wrist will fight to return to it's natural position.
The Sig P229, SWEET. That's all I can say about it. MUCH smoother trigger, and the most ergonomically correct gun of the bunch.
The Sig Pro 2340 is pretty cool. Everything on it is a bit more heavy duty than the P229. The polymer meant cheaper $$$ and less felt recoil vs. the P229. Integrated decocking lever is also in a snag free design. And because it's a sig, you know it's ergonimically correct and gives you a "tactile" feel as your bullet leaves the chamber that you don't get from other brands of guns. Have you driven a BMW or an Audi or a Porsche? You know the "feel" that is so distinctly German that you can't describe, but Honda tried to capture but didn't? Well, that's the same thing with the Sig's. There's a "feel"that you get from the Sig's you can't get from other guns.
So my pick was the SigPro 2340.
Keep in mind though, Sig, Glock, HK, there is no "BAD" gun in the group, just personal preference.
A little bit to keep an eye out for, I was looking at .40's I don't know what caliber you are looking at. But I was a bit hesitant about the Glocks because their .40's aren't fully supported barrels and I fear Kb! Before Glock people start bashing me, if you don't feel it a diet of reloads and +p+ stuff, there should be no worries.
Shoot safe, and let us know what you get.
Albert
Nyterunner
New member
As a SIG police armorer, I take exception to the issue of 'excellent customer service'. Not too long ago, I tried to order a hammer for a 229. After the initial runaround, SIG finally advised me that, even though I was an armorer, I couldn't order the hammer. Further, I found that individual (actually one of their in-house smiths) to be rude and arrogant. No, I haven't had that problem with HK. Go figure. and yes, Hell will freeze over before I buy one of THOSE guns. Also, frame cracking was mentioned by the instructor in my class, but he attributed it to 'hot' ammo. I guess SIG can't take +P.....
We all make judgements based on our experiences. In my experience I have always spoken with friendly people when calling SIG Arms. I got all my questions answered and twice received parts free of charge, once a guide rod and the second a pair of grip screws.
Like I said in my post, H&K does treat LE far better than regular citizens. For this reason I refuse to buy their products. Anyone that doesn't have the courtesy to respond to my inquiries doesn't deserve my money. Your mileage will of course vary.
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So many pistols, so little money.
Like I said in my post, H&K does treat LE far better than regular citizens. For this reason I refuse to buy their products. Anyone that doesn't have the courtesy to respond to my inquiries doesn't deserve my money. Your mileage will of course vary.
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So many pistols, so little money.