Any news from CZ?

Seems in this thread are a few CZ owners who could school me and forgive my ignorance

Back story before the question.

In 1991 the Army closed shop in Germany for the entire 7th Corps. This caused the closing of 840 locations and about 15 Rod and Gun Shops that sold firearms to soldiers.

Fire sales and I made a lot of great deals Walther PPK .32 ---2 each for $125 for the pair! DOH!!! should have bought the 4 they had

The CZ 75 I bought was $149...(wish now I had bought all 6 they had)

When I bought it--- I had no clue and took it on faith from the counter guy I knew that it was a great 9mm..

Of all the hand guns I own it is my favorite...fits, I shoot it well

I have now clue about my CZ 75...A B or whatever...I just love it and would like another

I am a fixed income cheap skate

This thread drove me to CZ web site and I am over whelmed by the different offerings

Can some one school me to what is the lowest cost version that is close to what I have?

I no longer Daily Carry. Home defense, Target, slap shot plinking walk about

FWIIW... mine seems to feed and shoot whatever 9mm I buy for cheap... actually first pistol I ever had that has not had the occasional FTFeed
 
Nitriding isn't really a finish as that term is commonly used. It's a surface hardening treatment that reduces wear and corrosion. (Think of it as a much stouter form of case hardening that like case-hardening changes the nature of the metal through chemical processes.)

Most gun makers use some form of nitriding (or carbon-nitriding or carburization) as a surface treatment and then apply a color coat on top of that. - and that includes Glock, S&W, H&K and SIG. Glock's Tennifer is a nitriding process, tweaked to make it proprietary; S&W and H&K and SIG all have their own variations on what is basically the same process -- but each firm considers its treatment the best, and they jealously keep the formula they use secret (and proprietary). Everybody gets hung up on the nitriding treatment but ignore the color coating, which is what gets scratched and marked up. (A CZ that is polycoated can be touched up -- done carefully -- using matte black Dupli-Color auto touch-up paint. Get the spray can version, which is thinner, (spray some on a small section of aluminum foil) and apply it with a model paint brush, and nobody will ever know you fixed a scratch or nick.)

CZ has been using a process called carburization (or nitro-carburization) on their barrrels for several years. The process leaves a black residue (that isn't a finish) and that residue can safely be polished off -- and many CZ owners do. Because the black stuff is residue, removing it doesn't affect the underlying (chemically changed) hardened steel. Color coatings applied OVER the "hardened" surface may have their own wear resistant natures.

It may be as WVsig suggests -- that CZ doesn't want to go to the extra trouble of prepping the surface (as it won't make the gun function better). I wonder, however, whether the surface beneath the polycoat is now nitrided rather than parkerized as once was the case for all polycoated guns? That said, CZ's high-gloss blue guns -- which might still be available by special order -- have a pretty nice finish so we KNOW CZ can do it well if they want to. And while the high gloss blue costs a bit more, that's probably because it takes a good bit of extra hand work: polishing is critical for beautiful high-gloss blued finishes.

Every once in a while you'll see a CZ with dark-colored but non-polycoated slide; a number of the two-tone models came that way. I don't know what "finish" those guns had, but it clearly was different than polycoat. CZ has put out a lot of small-run (i.e., few in number) variants over the years, and you never know what you may find on the used market.

I read fredvon4's comments above about getting his CZ in Germany. A lot of the early CZs seen in the US were purchased in Army Post or Air Force Base Exchanges. A few of the German-purcased guns I've seen here were semi-custom CZs from a West German firm called Frankonia, which built some beautiful guns.

fredvon4: You just want a basic 75B steel-framed CZ. The trigger won't be as good, at least not at first, and it has a firing pin safety which detracts a little. But gunsmiths from CZ Custom's shop or Cajun Gun Works can fix that problem quickly, and it might work out alright all on it's own.

I have an 85 Combat, recently discontinued (I think), and it doesn't have the firing pin safety; looking for a used 85 Combat would get you closer to the 75 you want. (The 85 Combat comes with an adjustable sight, trigger that has an over-travel adjustment, an extended slide release, ambidextrous controls, and drop-free mags.)
 
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I wish CZ would make a single stack. My RAMI is more chubby than I like for CC. I'd love to see a CZ single stack in DA/SA with a decocker. But I'm not holding my breath.

I'd love a CZ alloy single stack, but then it would probably weigh as much as a Sig P239, which was recently discontinued (presumably because of slow sales). With all the cheap, light polymer guns, I guess there's not much demand for metal framed single stacks. So I don't hold out much hope for that.
 
thanks Walt

Funny I had forgot the counter guy had indeed told me they were great just because the Ron n Gun store had got them from "West German firm called Frankonia"...I of course had no clue what that meant
 
GoPappy said:
I wish CZ would make a single stack. My RAMI is more chubby than I like for CC. I'd love to see a CZ single stack in DA/SA with a decocker. But I'm not holding my breath.

I'd love a CZ alloy single stack, but then it would probably weigh as much as a Sig P239, which was recently discontinued (presumably because of slow sales). With all the cheap, light polymer guns, I guess there's not much demand for metal framed single stacks. So I don't hold out much hope for that.
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I carry a 75D PCR, which is NOT a sub compact by any stretch. I'd like to see CZ make an alloy framed, single stack based on the 75 series, with a three inch barrel.
 
I don't understand why CZ hasn't made an alloy version of their full-sized guns. There would be a noticeable difference in carry weight, which can make a difference as the day wears on.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
I don't understand why CZ hasn't made an alloy version of their full-sized guns. There would be a noticeable difference in carry weight, which can make a difference as the day wears on.
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I think the polymer it’s just cheaper to manufacture and they can sell at a lower cost vs developing an aluminum frame.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
I don't understand why CZ hasn't made an alloy version of their full-sized guns. There would be a noticeable difference in carry weight, which can make a difference as the day wears on.
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The 75D PCR, and P-01 are pretty close to full size, service pistols. Yes, they are Compacts, but with the plethora of sub compacts out there, they are still comparatively pretty large. No complaints here, I own a PCR, and would love to have a P-01 also.
 
Pilot said:
The 75D PCR, and P-01 are pretty close to full size, service pistols.
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Agreed -- CLOSE, but sometimes CLOSE isn't close enough. :)

I've had a bunch of CZs over the years, including a bunch of 75Bs and a 75B Compact or two (the steel-framed models.) I eventually moved the Compacts on because those smaller steel-framed guns offered little advantage over the full-sized steel model. (I never cared for the decocker models.)

I would THINK (but have no way of knowing for sure) that an ALLOY-framed fullsize gun would be lighter than the steel-framed 75B Compact, and a better carry gun. That would a be more-desirable full-size gun for many folks than the standard steel-framed 75B. (Some might like a decocker-equipped versions, but I prefer the safety-equipped ones.)

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I think the majority of people looking for a carry gun will buy the smaller alloy versions or go with polymer. Are there people that want a fullsize alloy gun? Probably, but how much of a market does that represent? I don't think CZ would deliberately pass on more money if they thought the demand was there, especially as they have shown willingness to have a moderately sized catalog.
 
TunnelRat said:
I don't think CZ would deliberately pass on more money if they thought the demand was there, especially as they have shown willingness to have a moderately sized catalog.
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CZ has done a lot of things that didn't seem to make sense, producing a wide variety of guns of various sizes and compositions. And we have to remember that a "CARRY" gun isn't always a gun carried in deep concealment.
  • They have made a few Semi-compacts (long slides, compact frames or compact slides and full-size frames.)
  • They produced a few alloy-framed compacts that had safeties rather than decockers BEFORE they introduced the Omega versions.
  • Given the fact that frame durability has never been a problem with compact CZs, one wonders why CZ bothered with a forged alloy frame for the P-01, when cast alloy or steel was good for the other compact versions of the 75B design.
  • They continued to produce the 85 Combat for a decade or more, even though it's clear that they never built a LOT of them. (I, happily have one in satin nickel.)
  • They now build decocker-equipped CZ-97s, and they also offered a few CZ-97s in satin nickel.
  • They've built a few DAO CZ-75Bs. Not a gun that's in BIG demand.
  • There's has been an array of RAMI-based guns, including both decocker and safety models NOT using the Omega system, including a discontinued polymer version.
  • They quit offering satin nickel as a finish and offered silver polycoat in it's place -- but that never caught on; they then reverted to satin nickel again.
  • They offered a stainless-steel full-size gun, in three levels of polish (now 2) with a subtly different frame (with reversible mag release and an extended beaver-tail) when only the newest alloy compacts offered similar enhancements prior to that time. I would note, too, that the surface of the high-gloss stainless gun is quite well done, and imperfections simply aren't seen.
  • They apparently still offer high-gloss blued full-size guns, but the only place I've seen them offered is at the CZ Custom Shop. A CZ dealer might be able to special order -- but it'll take a while.
  • There was also, briefly, an CZ-85 Compact (with a safety rather than a decocker. Only a few of them made it to the U.S.A.
  • CZ announced a CZ-75B Compact in .40 back in the late '90s -- but a .40 compact was a long time coming. And earliest ones had magazine problems. But ProMag offered mags for the "promised" .40 model that worked in 9mm guns. A bunch of us on the CZ Forum used them during the mag ban period to give us several extra rounds per mag, and that was apparently legal according to an ATF letter ruling. At the time, that was the only .40 mag for a CZ that would retain 9mm rounds; 9mm round would just squirt out of other .40 CZ mags. (Don't know if they would actually work in a CZ, but they were quite good in CZ compact guns -- and no complaints from users!
  • The SA models have different slides in the 9mm and .40 versions, with only the .40 version using a full-length guide rod. Specialized, extra step processes.
  • CZ offered a RED STAR commemorative model bearing a hammer and sickle -- even though the gun was never used by a Communist Block military. That marketing effort seemed to imply something that wasn't quite factual.
  • CZ offered a Retro 75B that looked just like a 75 (rounded trigger guard, old-style tang hammer, and older-design slide lock lever. (I'd love to have one of those, but I never had the money when they were available.) I think a good bit of extra time and money went into making that relatively small run of guns.
  • While the RAMIs are sub-compacts and small, and have a modest following, CZ discontinued CZ-83... but offers no other, small .380 or 9x18 handgun. Even Glock has smaller guns, as do S&W and SIG.
  • Let's not forget the CZ-40P, which used a P-01 frame and a 40B slide, and a strange, full-size magazine with a BIG base that filled the gap at the bottom of the compact grip frame. I wonder if the 40P was just a way to get rid of some extra 40B slides.
  • CZ also did a second production run of the 40b a year or two after the initial production run. Probably from parts already in inventory. I wish they'd do that again, if they have any slides, frames, and barrels left.
All of these unusual offerings -- and I suspect I've forgotten or don't know about several others -- is just to make the point that you can never predict what-in-hell CZ is going to do next. A lot of the offerings might've been an effort to throw stuff against the wall to see what would stick.

All that written, a reader might understand why I'm surprised we never saw an alloy-framed full size gun.

Maybe CZ felt the polymer-framed Phantom addressed the need for a lighter full-size gun, as the Phantom weighs in at 29.4 oz, which is just 1.3 oz. heavier than the P-01, (but 11 ounces less than the similarly sized SP-01). Unhappily, the Phantom is apparently not available in a "convertible" Omega or safety-only format. (When comparing specs on the CZ website, I was surprised to see that the RAMI weighs just 3.5 ounces less than the Phantom!!)

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