any new weapons in this caliber or is .25 acp on its way out?

After a lot of work, I brought my Bauer back to life. Took it to the range, and fired 50rds with zero problems. lots of fun to shoot the little guy, now that it runs.

Even though the sights on this pistol are largely decorative, I fired for group at 7yds...7rds of PRVI 50gn FMJ:
 
Around 1905, when a Mormon from Utah was playing around with guns in Belgium, the only way known to make a small auto pistol was to make it for a smaller cartridge. .22 LR would seem a good choice, but the bullets weren't crimped, and .22 Long was not very powerful. Plus both were rimmed cartridges. So the guy from Utah, whose name was John, pulled his usual trick with a semi-rimmed center fire case, and came up with the 6.35mm Browning, which, by some coincidence, was his last name.

Later, when he brought the idea back to the U.S., and let Colt make some guns for that cartridge, they called it the .25 Automatic Colt Pistol cartridge.

But fast forward a hundred years, and other designers got into the act, using new ideas and new materials, and they managed to turn out pistols in .32 ACP, and .380 ACP that weren't much bigger than the guns Colt made in .25 ACP. Even the 9mm Parabellum, which in Browning's day was strictly for big guns like the Luger pistol, now have a home in pistols of pocket size or smaller.

So is there a place for a new pistol in .25 ACP? Somewhat sadly, I have to say there is not. There are plenty of the small guns around, and unless the gun ban gang has its way they will be around for many, many years. But I doubt there will be any new .25 ACP pistols from here on.

Jim
 
I think the Beretta Model 21 is still in production as is the Taurus PLY-25, both in 25acp.

I have a Beretta 950bs in 25 caliber and it's a neat mouse gun. That said, I don't carry it. But it's a fun little range piece.
 
The"Baby Browning".25ACP I bought in 1964 seems to be close to what we're saying.Maybe Ruger would be interested. :D
 
using .22lr ballistics from a 16" rifle compared to a .25acp ballistics out of a 2.2" barrel.
Click to expand...

that's of course comparing apples to bananas, yet the .22lr DOES yield a little more power (ca. 20 joules advantage) even out of a say 2,5" barrel
 
The .25 should die now. It's not adequate. New guns should not be made. Although a person cannot use one of the super compact .380 or 9 mm rounds with weak or arthritic hands, these compacts are not being loaded in .32 or .25, as I' have seen.

The steel framed handguns like the ppk are about twice the weight of the current crop of super compacts. It's tough firing a heavy .380 load through one of them for weak hands. chambering them for .25 would be a mistake, IMO.

From what I have seen, both are practically dead. There are a number of compact .22 lr handguns. Either .22 or .25 are marginal to the point that they are only better than nothing. For a while, the .32 acp became a popular hideout gun, using the Seecamp and others.

IMO.
 
"The .25 should die now. It's not adequate. New guns should not be made. Although a person cannot use one of the super compact .380 or 9 mm rounds with weak or arthritic hands, these compacts are not being loaded in .32 or .25, as I' have seen.

The steel framed handguns like the ppk are about twice the weight of the current crop of super compacts. It's tough firing a heavy .380 load through one of them for weak hands. chambering them for .25 would be a mistake, IMO.

From what I have seen, both are practically dead. There are a number of compact .22 lr handguns. Either .22 or .25 are marginal to the point that they are only better than nothing. For a while, the .32 acp became a popular hideout gun, using the Seecamp and others.

IMO."

Well, I'm glad you aren't in charge of new guns!
How, exactly do you think the .25 (and .32) guns have lasted almost 120 years if they aren't adequate? :rolleyes:
 
Bill DeShivs said:
How, exactly do you think the .25 (and .32) guns have lasted almost 120 years if they aren't adequate?
Click to expand...

Just because .25 acp semi-autos are still around today does NOT make a strong statement about the adequacy of the round or the weapons that shoot it. It does tell us that some folks still like the round and the ammo, and for that reason alone, they'll still be making .25 ACP ammo for a long time to come.

Worst case: it may be that .25 ACP ammo, like the .22 Autorim ammo I use in a couple of my old Winchester 1903 semi-auto rifles, .25 ammo will only be produced for brief runs every 4-5 years, and you'll just have to buy it when you can find it!
 
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walt sherrill said:
Just because .25 acp semi-autos are still around today does NOT make a strong statement about the adequacy of the round or the weapons that shoot it.
Click to expand...

It would appear that there are lots of people out there who don't share your opinions about the adequacy of the .25 ACP. Why would they carry it if they didn't consider it "adequate"? Based on factory sales, it's far more alive than many other common calibers and cartridges.

briandg said:
these compacts are not being loaded in .32 or .25, as I' have seen.
Click to expand...

Plastic frame Taurus .25 and .22 here:

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=696&category=Pistol

briandg said:
From what I have seen, both are practically dead.
Click to expand...

I suppose that would mean that a WHOLE lot of other less popular factory cartridges like .44 Special, .45 Colt, etc, must be buried and gone from what you've seen?

According to Federal and Remington sales, the .25 ACP is more popular than the .32 S&W, .327 Federal Mag, .32 H&R Mag, 9mm Makarov, .38 Super, .357 Sig, .41 Rem Mag, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .45 GAP, and all the rest of the bigger caliber handgun rounds they now produce.

It'll be around far longer than anyone reading this.

Federal Top 10 Sales
1. 9mm Luger
2. .40 S&W
3. .45 ACP
4. .38 Special
5. .380 ACP
6. .357 Magnum
7. 10mm Auto
8. .44 magnum
9. .32 ACP
10. .25 ACP

Remington Top 8 Sales
1. 9mm Luger
2. .45 ACP
3. .40 S&W
4. .380 ACP
5. .38 Special
6. .357 Magnum
7. .44 Magnum
8. .25 ACP
 
45_auto said:
It would appear that there are lots of people out there who don't share your opinions about the adequacy of the .25 ACP. Why would they carry it if they didn't consider it "adequate"? Based on factory sales, it's far more alive than many other common calibers and cartridges.
Click to expand...

You seem to have read more into my comments than I wrote. I made no comment about the adequacy of the .25 ACP in the response you cited.

I did say, however, that JUST BECAUSE a number of folks own and like their .25 semi-autos, their ownership and attitudes tells us NOTHING about the ADEQUACY of the .25 round or weapon. Having an opinion or strong feelings about something and making related claims is not the same as showing that those feelings or claims are justified. Believing doesn't always make it so.

I'd like to have something a bit more concrete than opinion. A simple definition of what "adequate" really means when talking about the performance of a small handgun would be a nice start.
 
It really is a cartridge that merits developement into a slightly higher powered +P load for the pistols that can handle it.
In the '80's, I was buying German made GECO 25acp/6.35mm which came in 25rd boxes. They were about $4 a box.
This GECO ammo was beautiful stuff...silver cupro nickel FMJ in shiny brass cases, with red sealant on the primer and case mouth.
Seemed quite a bit hotter than anything made here, and very accurate in both a Mauser 1910 and a beretta 950. Wish I could still get it
 
High Capactity +P+ 25 ACP pistol...
What would the stats be?
In a package similar to the Keltec PMR 22 mag pistol.
How many rounds could you pack into something the size of an LCP?

You can't stretch the case like with a rimmed round. That could make for a really interesting cartridge.
 
I've done quite a bit of research on the comparison between 25 ACP and the 22 LR because I inherited a 25 ACP from my grandmother and took an interest in the round. It turns out that from a similar size gun the 25 ACP slightly outperforms the 22lr in penetration and foot-pounds. Plus it is more reliable. All of my 22 LR pistols have reliability issues that are standard fare for 22 pistols that no one would ever accept in a centerfire pistol. 22 ammo is just simply not as reliable both on ignition and in the size, feeding, ejection, all of it. YouTube has a couple of 25 ACP penetration test compared to 22 LR from a similarly sized gun and you can see the penetration of an fmj 25acp is on par with a hp 380. The advantage that the 380 has over 25 ACP is that they make a larger hole and sometimes expand and they are heavier and can punch through bone and other obstructions better. I think if a ammo manufacturer wanted to put out a 25acp +p load and a gun manufacturer were to put out an LCP sized (or smaller) gun with a double stack magazine with 13 or more rounds I think there could be a real market and a pretty effective micro carry option.
 
Start sending emails or letters to CZ-USA and see if they are going to follow through with U.S. produced CZ-92s. That would make a pretty neat gun for +P .25 loads.
 
It turns out that from a similar size gun the 25 ACP slightly outperforms the 22lr in penetration and foot-pounds
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. I take it that from a 2.5" barrel, a .25acp will hardly exceed 90joules, while a .22lr can easily reach 110j (see ballistics by the inch). Not a big difference, and maybe still penetration is better with the FMJ round, but in terms of power .22lr beats the .25acp even out of shorty barrels.
 
I'm sorry but it looks like your misreading ballistics by the inch. The website shows a 22 40 grain Remington Golden bullet doing 672 ft./s out of a 2 inch barrel gun (Actual gun not the theoretical numbers on the top chart). And the 25 ACP doing 765 feet per second with a 50 grain bullet out of a 2 inch barrel Berretta. That's a heavier bullet going faster. The website shows that the 25 ACP outperforms the 22 LR from a similarly sized gun.
But I admit that the difference in the small calibers will be truly minimal. The performance benefit from a 25 ACP is only slight.
Now if someone were to actually come up with a 25 ACP +P there might actually be a significant benefit.
 
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For a while, I owned both a 22lr Beretta Bobcat, and an identical Bobcat in 25acp. I mainly shot the rimfire version, and occasionally carried the centerifre.

Eventually, after many rounds of faultless performance with the 22, I started looking at carrying it instead.

I did do an impromptu test one day, shooting the two identical pistols at an old phone book.

The shots from both pistols penetrated about the same depth. 25acp maybe did a few pages more, but not enough to make a huge difference. JHP 25 did the worst of both calibers.
 
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