any low cost alternative to crimson trace?

orionengnr- you make a good point about the point shooting aspect. I was going to say you don't really need a laser if you have good muscle memory and can point shoot. You brought to light the idea of using the laser as an aid to practicing point shooting.
 
to the original poster. you get what you pay for when it comes to laser. save up and get the good one. and get the one you really want. you will regret getting anything else.
 
to the original poster. you get what you pay for when it comes to laser. save up and get the good one. and get the one you really want. you will regret getting anything else.
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This is absolutely correct. I have had a couple of "entry level" (aka cheap) lasers, and they dont hold zero. I certainly wouldn't want to have one on my HD pistol and find out the hard way that it was junk.

Buy quality once and you will not regret it.
 
go green - get a viridian

or

lasermax makes those guide rod lasers that make your gun seem as if there is no laser at all when looking at it.

just like with most products, you get what you pay for. when it comes to self-defense, it's simply not worth skimping out on something you entrust your life to.
 
Since I mostly shoot target shotguns by pointing at my target, I practice my pistols the same way. At SD/HD distances, most sight would be superfluous, IMO.
 
Then you will see how helpless you were
in the dark.
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Disadvantaged...maybe. Not helpless. At SD ranges, I seldom use sights, or even look at the gun for that matter.

It takes Supper [sic] Man to see iron sights in
the dark.
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If it's totally dark you can't see your target, either.

I have been shooting iron sights for over
50 years.
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I've been shooting with and without sights for 35+.

Lazer sights can give you an advantage in some situations. In others (bright light), they're useless. They are not gimmiks, but are another tool that might give one an advantage over an unexpected enounter.

One is not helpless without them, but may (or may not) be disadvantaged in any particular encounter.

I have two sets of CT lazergrips on snub-nosed revolvers, and I believe that they give me an advantage with these firearms. I feel no need for them on other firearms I shoot, and my primary carry gun does not wear them (G23).

I can look at an object, close my eyes, raise my G23 between my eyes and the object, and the sights will be lined up very well on the object when I open my eyes. This is one of the most natural pointing guns I've ever shot (for me).

I truly believe that a lazer sight can offer an advantage in some cases, but I also know that they are not always needed on a carry gun.

Daryl
 
I don't think we can say that Crimson Trace is "holding technology hostage" in this way, inasmuch as they are actually producing the product; real, working versions…a lot of real, working versions.
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I agree, I was just making a general statement. I think CT deserves the patent and does make good products. I DO look forward to some real, open competition so that a laser doesn't cost nearly as much as the gun!
 
I have a CT laser on my Kahr CW-9. Works fine and I totally see that in some situations it could be very useful. I do find that I shoot better with the iron sights however.

If you are a concealed carrier and end up in a SD shootout, I would think that it would be at a very close range. Unless you feel your life is threatened at 20 yards or something .... which means you are probably going to jail after the shooting BTW.

CC shootout will probably be close range, it is probably better to be able to point and shoot since you are talking about a few yards at most. I know that is not what most pros teach but it is what criminals who shoot cops (outshoot cops) successfully do. I think a case can be made for using instinctive shooting over using iron sights.

HD? I want a laser, high-powered light/strobe and a red-dot sight - screw iron sights. I suppose some of you think red-dot sights are gimmicks too?

Lasers are not a panacea, they are a tool and a good tool at that.

But I suppose you will always have some people who don't recognize useful technology whether that is a home computer, a GPS map plotter, or any number of things.
 
Good thing we didn't have lasers in the past

otherwise the good guys would not have known what to do in the dark with real pistols.
 
Go to your junk drawer and find a gizmo you can attach to your gun to make it look cool. And has you are looking cool with all the money you save you can learn to shoot with iron sights. Just tell everyone that you need a new battery.
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+1!!!
Use the money you would spend on some electronic gadget that takes batteries, and needs to be switched on and use it for ammo to practice and learn to shoot. Electronic, batteries, switches, mounts, all things that can go bad. Experience and proficiency with instinct shooting outweighs modern electronics! JMHO, but I'm just an old man who has been shooting all my life. What do I know?
 
It is now a patent violation to build anything similar.... Short answer: no one can make one
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You can make one, you just can't sell them.

Far as I know there isn't patent law that prohibits a person from making their own from a patent. Also, a patent does not protect the patent holder in the sense that there is a govt agency enforcing such things. A patent just gives the holder the legal right to file a suit against someone that is infringing on the patent.

A easy way around the grip tension issue is a motion sensing circuit that turns it on when moved. However that means it will be on once the gun is moved reducing the surprise factor.

Does anyone have the patent #? There are a couple of places on line that allow free patent searches and printing of the actual patent. Any idea how long these have been sold?

Another possible work around would be to offer a grip that can "hold a spare cartridge" Hmm, I've got a laser bore site, seems like a good place to store it. . . .
 
I have CT lasers on 3 guns, my night stand CZ ,the wifeys J frame and a PPk
I gave my brother a set for his Defender. All for the same reason, that is when you need a target sighted right now, in the dark, it works. I shoot often and practice, regular IDPA and other games, they dont shoot much at all. The benefit is still there. To say a laser is a crutch for poor skills is to not understand their usefulness.
I use the laser to accentuate point shooting drills with an unloaded gun. Pick a spot on the wall using no sights, hold on it and then turn on the laser and see where I am. The CT is a an aid and an adjunct, they dont make you grind off your irons to install them. YMMV
 
I use the laser to accentuate point shooting drills with an unloaded gun. Pick a spot on the wall using no sights, hold on it and then turn on the laser and see where I am.
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Hmmmm...somebody made the same point (far more eloquently) in post #18. :)
 
Ive used knockoff airsoft stuff on my .22s. Its about what you would expect a cheap knock off...

I wouldnt recommend them for anything more than "looks".:barf:
 
I bought a set of CT for my XD-45 last year and just last weekend tried them out. By the third clip I could put 10 rds into a silver dollar group. I couldn't believe it!!! They are not cheap but they are going on every gun I carry for SD
 
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