Actually, I dont think youre to far off.Practice mag dumps.
I don't pin the trigger after the shot breaks and then slowly release to wait for the reset. Instead when the shot breaks, I'm already pushing my finger out and prepping the trigger for my next shot.
Granted, a good trigger reset does make that easier. But I don't rely on that or give it much focus.
Watch the video I posted. Slapping or jerking the trigger means nothing. The key is don’t move your hand.Does that lead to any kind of inaccuracy? Are you slapping the trigger causing the gun to move?
Or is it still 'good enough' to get the job done?
“The guy” in the video is Rob Leatham. The (maybe arguably) greatest shooter of all time.
Please search more of his videoed. He’s not a “Combat” shooter. He’s a gamesman shooter. But, his skill at shooting fast and hitting is unquestionable. He’s the real deal.
I’m glad you found it useful.
There is of course a different method, if you're "gaming" or shooting competition; depending on distance, and ability. Ben stoeger talks about reactive vs proactive shooting. My style of shooting is reactive. I react to the sights being acceptably on target. Proactive shooting means "at this distance, with this target profile, and these conditions i know that at this cadence, or pace i can place every round in an acceptable area" that's modified just slightly from his speech but it gets the point home. In this type of shooting its more "grip it and rip it" smash the trigger as fast as I can type shooting.
I'm not so much a fan of this, I generally don't shoot for competition, and I'm not honestly particularly good at the sport. I don't believe that this technique has much application in civilian defensive shooting.
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Does that lead to any kind of inaccuracy? Are you slapping the trigger causing the gun to move?
Or is it still 'good enough' to get the job done?
My issue with it isn't the mechanics, its the mental processing needed to accurately assess a live, developing situation accurately.While I agree a person has to answer for every shot in a self defense shooting, I don’t believe what you’re describing is opposed to that. I know that at say 3-7 yd I can deliver rounds at a certain cadence and have all of them fall within say a 6 in diameter circle. This doesn’t require me to have a full sight picture for every shot. Now at longer distances I know that the accuracy achieved this way isn’t satisfactory and I would switch to obtaining a sight picture for every shot. The distance at which someone can do this varies by their skill level.
The why I would do this isn’t just about speed for a competition. In a defensive shooting we’re trying to stop someone or multiple someones from hurting ourselves or someone else. The longer this takes the longer the other person has to either shoot at us, stab us, hit us, etc. Speed has a role and there is a balance between speed and accuracy.
With good body mechanics you can deliver rounds at shorter distances by shooting reflexively. It does take a fair amount of practice, but in the two day course I did most students were amazed at how well they could do. The course wasn’t geared towards competition. It was based in practices by Bob Taubert, who was a firearms instructor for the FBI.
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My issue with it isn't the mechanics, its the mental processing needed to accurately assess a live, developing situation accurately.
I can look at a paper target 7 yards away and know that I can rip it because its at that distance, and has a certain tolerance for accuracy. It is significantly harder to interpret a situation wherein there are people moving around, my target, and I are actively moving, or maneuvering; cover, concealment, innocents possibly running around in the background or to the sides etc....
Most "operators" are capable of quickly and accurately assessing a room, or situation based on training and experience. Many people who have dedicated significant time to training are also capable of doing a good job of that. Someone who has taken a CCW class and a "mechanics" class or two will more than likely not be able to accurately, or quickly. I tend to lean into that side of the equation more than the mechanics side. That's why I says "shoot whenvyour sights allow" because it encourages active interpretation of the situation.
I can certainly see that the grip it and rip it school has a lot to offer: "make decision, send it, while that occurs look for new decision to make" etc.. I just don't find that MOST people are willing to put the effort into defensive shooting that this becomes an efficient and effective strategy. For people who are able to work on that it is certainly acceptable. Definitely something that someone who is serious about defensive shooting should have in their toolbox.
I would encourage anyone who STRICTLY adheres to the grip it and rip it school to look at what chuck pressburg (roland) says in/about his no fail classes.
Edit:
Why would becoming more efficient with your time and motion make you a worse shooter?
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On a flat range, with nothing else going on, no distractions, and only the stress of the timer (not a useless thing) it is certainly easy to determine the distance and accuracy constraints of a target. In a fluid situation with many factors involved that we can only guess at, and usually make mediocre attempts at recreating, it is far more difficult to accurately analyze a situation.It shouldn’t require significant mental processing to know the difference between 3 yd and 7 yd. I disagree with the phrasing of “grip it and rip it”. That implies a lack of control that I’m not implying in the above.
The goal isn’t to STRICTLY adhere to any single method. The goal is to have multiple techniques and use them judiciously.
Where did I ever say becoming more efficient with your time motion make you a worse shooter?
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On a flat range, with nothing else going on, no distractions, and only the stress of the timer (not a useless thing) it is certainly easy to determine the distance and accuracy constraints of a target. In a fluid situation with many factors involved that we can only guess at, and usually make mediocre attempts at recreating, it is far more difficult to accurately analyze a situation.
It was lazy of me to use that phrase, my apologies. Of course that technique is used with control and care, and after making the proper decision to utilize it.
On the matter of having either skill available in your toolbox we certainly agree. I just tend to rely on what I perceive as a more reliable method. I assume that you do the same based on your experiences.
I was referring to another poster who had said that asking about preping the trigger during recoil was asking about how to be a worse shooter.
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I would venture to say that you and I are on the same sheet of music. Perhaps different keys, though definitely the same tune.As someone that has done force on force with UTM, I can say that in my experience a person needs to be able to gauge distances, even if roughly. You’re right that a shooting is a dynamic event. Knowing that someone is 10 ft from you as opposed to 30 ft from you is important. Will you have the measurements down to inches? Not likely (at least for me), but distance to target and the difficulty of a certain shot in general relative to your skill level are critical for determining if you decide to take that shot or not.
It also relates to whether or not I’m using the firearm in the first place. Take the Tueller drill for example. Knowing if you have the space and time to complete a draw or if it would be better to go hands on to control a contact weapon is something that can happen. Or maybe you decide to run away given the available distance (a perfectly legitimate strategy in many instance). Distance also goes to the legal aftermath. A threat at 25 yd is significantly different than a threat at 3 yd. While I wouldn’t suggest quoting exact distances to the threat in an interview with police, you may likely need to be able to communicate why you needed to use the firearm. Proximity to threat can be part of that.
I’m not suggesting being so rigid as to say that at distance X you always do this and distance Y you always do that. That’s why I made the response about the use of the word strictly. What you do depends on the whole picture. Generally speaking I always want a good sight picture as the consequences of a missed shot are a lot more than a time penalty. My point is if someone is just out of arm’s reach and about to strike or shoot me knowing I can deliver rounds to the upper thoracic cavity with a very high probability of hits by shooting reflexively rather than take the time to acquire a full sight picture for each shot is something I might make use of. As you say, tools in a toolbox.
And l always enjoy a good discussion. The reason I responded isn’t because I disagree strongly. I actually agree with you a lot more than I disagree. I just wanted to point out to the OP that there are times when it may make sense. You’re right though that it may be something that requires some training before putting to practice.
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