Any Costwise Benefit In Building an AR From Parts?

OK, now you've got me thinking about a couple of other questions. :)

You also have the option of building everything piece by piece
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Before I ask this question, let me say I am NOT thinking of doing this, especially not right away. Can you estimate total cost if it is put together piece-by-piece? Part b of the question would be is it really easy to do, or are there potentially a lot of frustrations getting parts to fit or having to do a lot of meticulous hand fitting?

My last question is, I always like a nice trigger if possible, do the PSA parts include a pretty good trigger? If not, is it easy to get trigger parts to achieve a nice feel? I realize I would not get the feel of a bolt action trigger. But if it is anything like the HBAR I fired, I could not live with it at all. It was the worst trigger of any semi-auto rifle I have ever shot. Thanks!

Lou
 
Building an AR 15 is very easy to do. Its mostly just a matter of assembling the parts with common hand tools. The only special tool you must have is a barrel nut wrench and a torque wrench if you don't already have one. A buffer tube lock nut wrench also makes things easier but isn't absolutely necessary.

As for the trigger, you can buy after market triggers that are better than the stock trigger. There is also a trick to making the stock trigger better by putting a set screw in the pistol grip mounting screw hole and using it to adjust the trigger. I used the set screw on my rifles and polished the trigger and now I have a crisp 3-4 pound pull with no slack.

One way you can save cost, if your not picky about what parts you want, is look for take off parts or used parts at gun shows. People change their ARs all the time and sell the unwanted parts. Blemished parts are also another cheaper source for parts. Many times the blemish won't be noticeable or so insignificant you won't even care about it.
 
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My last question is, I always like a nice trigger if possible, do the PSA parts include a pretty good trigger? If not, is it easy to get trigger parts to achieve a nice feel? I realize I would not get the feel of a bolt action trigger. But if it is anything like the HBAR I fired, I could not live with it at all. It was the worst trigger of any semi-auto rifle I have ever shot. Thanks!

Lou
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If you assemble it all yourself, you might save about a hundred bucks, but have a few better pieces than just buying an entry level milspec rifle. I'm currently building one primarily from PSA parts, though I would already change a couple of items I have. One of the best things you can do if you are going to use a dot-type optic is to grab one of PSA's upper receiver assemblies with the Aimpoint PRO on it. It is a $400 optic, and the package on sale is $599, so essentially you get an assembled upper for $200. It's hard to find just a barrel for that price...

I will likely have about $550 in the rifle I am building. It will have PSA upper/lower, PSA BCG and ambi charging handle, RRA Chrome-lined barrel (mid length 16"), MOE grip and trigger guard, and a standard M4 6 position milspec stock with standard handguards, and an Armalite 2 stage Tactical trigger. I am cheating the system slightly by using the stock and handguards I removed from my Armalite rifle, so add $39.99 for a set of basic PSA furniture to my price.. still, less than $600 for a decent AR that should last a good long while is pretty good. To build it for that price I am carefully watching their daily and weekend deals and grabbing up pieces. I paid $39.99 for the lower parts kit with MOE grip and trigger guard (without fire control group), which is less than the normal retail price for just the MOE parts without the rest of the parts kit... the specials really work, but you have to be patient to catch them on sale and in stock.

As for the trigger.. you get what you pay for. There are very nice triggers out there for the AR platform, Geissele is considered one of the best, Timney makes a nice drop-in unit. I have an Armalite 2 stage Match trigger for my Armalite rifle.. but I don't know if I'll even use it. I adjusted my factory 2 stage Match trigger to the top spring notch, and it feels very good, the match trigger is actually the same part with some stonework done to further smooth the action from what I am told. If it was a benchrest rifle, or if I was shooting long range, I'd drop in the match trigger in a heartbeat, but it is a hunting and training rifle so I'll likely leave it where it is. It feels a lot like an out-of-the-box Savage Accutrigger right now, which is pretty nice for a factory AR trigger.
 
Thanks Cobra. OK, now I have to ask a real sophomoric newbie question: how did you learn about all the things you wanted in an AR? It sounds like you had some experience with an Armalite unit before you built your PSA gun. Did that help you figure things out? How did you start out with your first rifle? (Sorry, that was three questions, not one!) I am just wondering how I should get started.

I mean I know I will not get a piece of junk if I guy a PSA package. I am not worried about that. I just wonder how to best know what things I would like on it, to avoid buying some things I will eventually replace. Or, is that a reality that is normal and one I will have to just get used to?

Maybe I just need to break down all the parts of the rifle and study them to see what options there are and why certain people prefer certain things. Should I go hang out on ar15.com a while or some place like that?

Lou
 
I have owned two Armalite M15 rifles, I had a ban compliant version for about ten years, sold it for more than I paid for it in 2010, and last year I got back into an Armalite M15 with a collapsible M4 stock. I am building this one just for kicks and to learn a little more about them. I was also Active Army for ten years, I fired M16a2's and M4's a lot.. that really gave me a base for what lasts.

99 percent of it is personal preference and weighing advantages vs disadvantages. For example, you can get a "law enforcement profile" barrel, which has the step down that is meant for attaching a grenade launcher, but in reality you cannot legally own the M203 40mm grenade launcher so I opt for a heavier profile barrel without the stepdown, and pick up a little bit of shot to shot consistency..

You really have to weigh what you want to do with the rifle. One good thing to do is shop around at assembled rifles and see what features you like. Rock River Arms makes a lot of different versions and has pics of them on their website. Also visit a gun store and get hands on some variants with different grip and stock combinations and see what fits well..
 
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how did you learn about all the things you wanted in an AR?
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Army vet, experience with M16a1/a2 ..... internet research (mostly with regard to barrel length and twist rates) .......

I mostly decided to build my own based on two things: I figured I could build what I wanted for less than I could buy what the local market offered, and I saw a youtube video by some pimply faced teenager who could barely speak English (if you took out every "Um" and "like" and "you know" out of his video, it would have been 1/2 as long) put together a lower in less than 10 minutes ....... I figured I could handle that.
 
I was a Marine grunt for 4 years so the M16-A1 was like a part of my anatomy from the time I was 17. I learned to hit out to 500 meters with it and did everything - drill, patrol, sleep, helo-repel - with it.

Since then I've built an M-14, FAL's, AK's, and a number of other firearms but the AR just seems natural to me. I bought an AR-10 because I like the bigger round and even though the controls feel right I have all-steel FAL's I've built which are not as heavy as the AR-10.

My favorite AR-15 has a 16" barrel, mid-length, floating, carbon tube handguard. The upper is a flat-top with an Aimpoint CompM4 red-dot sight mounted on it. This is chambered in 6.8X43mm - I prefer the heavier bullet and the fact that it is designed for performance out of short barrels so I loose less energy out of the 16" tube than a 5.56X45mm round does - compared to a 20" barrel.
 
In the "old" days, mid-late 1990s, when there were really only 4 options for Ar15s, (Colt, Armalite, DPMS and Bushmaster) you could save a bit of money buying a stripped lower and a complete upper and building your own. I put together an Oly PCR carbine for about $500.

Well, I don't really even want it yet. I am just thinking about it. At this point, I might use it in 3-gun competition. I have heard it really is a better choice for home defense than a shotgun, although I know there is some debate on that. So, maybe it would take the place of my Defender shotgun for HD.
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For home defense I would want a carbine (~16" barrel) with iron sights. Then I would leave it in the safe and use the shotgun ;)

Sadly a lot of 3-gun has become a ridiculous caricature of what it once was, and focus has shifted from "Practical" shooting to specialized courses requiring specialized equipment with optics. I would advise you go to a match at your local club and see how they run things, and decide if it is something you are interested in.

That being said, You really need to decide what you are trying to get out of it. If you just want to go and have fun, and challenge yourself you don't really need anything special, even at the if the club is all gamers.

The old club I used to shoot with was a lot more focused on practical shooting, using realistic situations, sometimes based on real-world events. I shot a rifle match with them using a bolt action K98k Mauser. I did not win, but it was very challenging, and I had fun.

The last match I shot at a different club was a lot more of a gun game, and I used a basic AR Carbine (the one I built for $500) with standard carry-handle A2 sights (shooting from 15 to ~300 yards), a single stack 1911, and a otherwise stock 870 with a mag tube extension.

Did I win? Of course not, the top guys all had custom rifles with optics, semi-auto shotguns with 26 inch barrels with magazines longer than the barrel, and the course of fire was completely unsuited to iron sights (like one of these at 100 yards). I challenged myself, and had fun.
 
Yes. Go to palmetto state armory. On a good day they are selling discounted complete rifle kits without a lower in the 500-600 dollar range. Then buy a blemish Aero precision lower for 75, I think it was. The upper is already assembled and you've got an ar (and not a bad one) for less than 700. They had a special once where you could have even made one for less than 600. Good luck.
 
I think PSA has blem lowers for $59 right now. I built 2 AR's because I'm gear head and tinkerer. They both function as well as my S&W AR15 Sport. I might have saved a little but it's my hobby.
 
Earlier this week you could've built a mid-length gas system rifle from Palmetto State for $660. $670 after FFL transfer fee. That was with a Blem lower. Now the lower is full price but still only $99. You can get lowers for $60 all day long if you dont care about the roll mark on it. I REALLY like LAR Grizzly lowers and they are generally about $80ish if you find a good deal.
 
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"I got a fever. And the only prescription is ..."

Man, all this stuff is fascinating. My problem (wait, it's not a problem, at least not yet) is that I really like to build things. And an AR has my name and "build me" written all over it.

If I bought a complete upper, then a lower, about the only "building" I guess there would be would be pinning them together (if that's how it's done). But, correct me if I am wrong here, when I got done doing that, I would just want to build another one with a few more parts that need to be put together. Actually, maybe not. The lowers look like some assembly is required, and the uppers look like they have little to actually be assembled.

And I suppose that cycle would continue as I go on to different themes of builds like "most inexpensive" (a fully discount parts and blem parts gun) and "most accurate", etc. Actually, the cycle would continue until my wife saw how much I was spending and asked the all-too-familiar question, "How many of these do you really need?" :eek:

At that point, I could just have a chat with her about how much it would cost if I was into flying, yachts, boating, hot air ballooning, or dozens of other hobbies that are far more expensive. Yeah, now I feel better. :D

Great input, thanks guys.

Lou
 
As far as the total cost of individual parts to build a complete AR , I would put it in the $700-800 range for a good "milspec" rifle in stock form. Mostly from PSA of course, as other websites or local gunstores will have varying prices. As an example I've built a complete Spikes Tactical M4 piece-by-piece for about $880 I think, but that had a quadrail and Magpul parts.

I think right now PSA has a complete upper build kit for $599 which has everything except a stripped lower receiver. Add their stripped lower for $99and that puts you at $700, but remember you will have to add shipping costs and the transfer fee for the lower. If you just want to get started, buy a stripped lower by itself or with any of the parts kit combo they have on the website. It all boils down to your budget and where you want to start.

I'll tell you for sure that most people will want to change out the trigger guard, pistol grip, and stock, so keep that in mind when ordering parts. Any of the Magpul MOE upgrades is what you want to use (MOE grip, trigger guard, and CTR or MOE stock). But those can be bought separatelylater on if you decide you don't like the factory A2 grip, trigger guard, and stock.

Now that you mentioned you like building things, then you'll definitely like building AR15's. Just be warned they are very addicting! I'm not an expert, but I've built maybe 5 AR's, and the other ones I've owned I just buy a complete rifle. Some of the builds I've had takes from one month up to 6months if I drag it out (budget restriction usually). The ones I've bought complete include Colt's, S&W, and Spikes Tactical when I had spare funds and don't want to wait for a build.
 
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Wanted to add some figures to illustrate how building vs buying costs are so you'll have an idea also:

Colt6920 - $1097 at Walmart
Wyndham Weaponry M4 - $850
Bushmaster Patrolman XM15 ~ $950
Smith and Wesson M&P15 Sport $600-$750 depending on area/vendor

I bought the Colt6920 "M4 Carbine" which is the benchmark that Milspec rifles are compared to this past summer just to have experience and first-hand use of an AR15 that is as close to a Military M4 as you can get. The name brand is nice, but other bills came up so I sold it last month and only have a PSA rifle at the moment.

That $300-400 savings is significant and can go towards a good optic (Eotech/Aimpoint) or a case of ammo. Of course If money was not an issue, I would be suggesting a complete rifle by Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, or Noveske etc.
Just some things to think about for your future builds :cool:.
 
Justice, I am definitely a kit builder. When I was a kid I used to build Heathkit radios from kits, and it continues on to almost anywhere I can get quality kits for things.

I am thinking I might just buy kits from PSA and start there. I know, there may be other sources that might be a little less expensive. But especially in kits, I want quality to be high and from what I can tell, PSAs is. And using kits can help me meter out the funds instead of dropping a big wad of cash all at once.

My only hesitation at this point is fear of a lack of education. I hate buying something then learning some new things later and realizing I could have made a better informed decision if I had waited. To balance that somewhat, I also realize that sometimes buying, trying, and experience is the best educator.

I appreciate your input.

Lou
 
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