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Antique and cap and ball guns on federal property
- Thread starter WV_gunner
- Start date
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Yes, that's pretty clear.cjwils said:I am not an expert on this topic and not a lawyer,...
As a lawyer, I can point out that's not necessarily true. An antique might not be considered a firearm for some purposes, and still be considered a firearm for other purposes. That sort of thing happens all the time.cjwils said:...It is NOT a "firearm" under federal law. Federal rules and prohibitions affecting firearms should not apply to antiques unless the law is being applied by people who never read the law...
And that was indeed the situation in U.S. v. Green, 515 F.Supp. 517 (D.Md. 1981). In that case ruled that an antique considered to be a firearm for the purposes of a violation of 18 USC App. 1202(a), a federal law, and affirmed a conviction under that statute.
The court specifically ruled that the broad definition of "firearm" set out in 18 USC App. 1202, under which the cap and ball revolver involved would be considered a firearm, superseded for the purposes of a violation of 18 USC App. 1202(a), the narrow definition of "antique firearm" set out at 18 USC 921(a)(3).
Fishing_Cabin
New member
Thank you Frank...
U.S. v. Green is a favorite discussion point...Many view the definition as what the ATF defines. Not so.
It "may" be a firearm under federal and state law, depending on how you intend to use it, and how the judge understands the definitions put out in this case. Dont put much stock in pre-1899, or "replica." It comes down to intent, and what you actually "do" with it.
U.S. v. Green is a favorite discussion point...Many view the definition as what the ATF defines. Not so.
cjwils said:I am not an expert on this topic and not a lawyer, but federal law clearly defines "firearms" and it defines "antiques". There is no federal category of "antique firearms" A gun made before 1899 (except a full auto) is an "antique". It is NOT a "firearm" under federal law. Federal rules and prohibitions affecting firearms should not apply to antiques unless the law is being applied by people who never read the law.
State laws may vary. I suspect that many of the situations described above were under state law.
It "may" be a firearm under federal and state law, depending on how you intend to use it, and how the judge understands the definitions put out in this case. Dont put much stock in pre-1899, or "replica." It comes down to intent, and what you actually "do" with it.
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This started as a discussion about antique guns on post office property. Frank Ettin mentioned a section of federal law that says:
"(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes."
Someone pointed out that this particular section does not have definitions, so what this means about antiques might be vague.
However, if you go to http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm
and look near the bottom of the page, it says "Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are acceptable for mailing."
Can you mail an antique firearm even though one section of the law says you cannot carry it on post office property?
"(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes."
Someone pointed out that this particular section does not have definitions, so what this means about antiques might be vague.
However, if you go to http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm
and look near the bottom of the page, it says "Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are acceptable for mailing."
Can you mail an antique firearm even though one section of the law says you cannot carry it on post office property?
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Yes.cjwils said:...Can you mail an antique firearm even though one section of the law says you cannot carry it on post office property?
In one case, the antique firearm is (1) unloaded; (2) packaged and wrapped for mailing; and (3) addressed for mailing.
In the other case, the antique firearm is loaded and worn for possible use as a weapon if needed for self defense.
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If I were in your situation I would rather risked getting mugged than risk my freedom. I think it could be fairly argued that a pocket knife is a weapon and that may even be an issue. Furthermore if you pull a knife on someone and you are not a "fighter" than you may end up much worse than without it. Move your PO box or find a way to get to it at better times of day.